fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #6487 ]

[ SECRET POST #6487 ]

⌈ Secret Post #6487 ⌋

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Lol, the ultimate point is that it's fictional so it can go any way you want it to <3

All of those are perfectly good reasons why a culture would want to stay amphibious. But go with me here: how many amphibians can you think of? We've got frogs, salamanders, and other little slimy guys. There are tons of animals that spend part of their time at sea, otters/snakes/lizards/seals/etc, but these guys are localized to nearby water and are often at a disadvantage on land. Being amphibious isn't the winningest of survival strategies.

Land and sea are just *really* different environments and it takes really *really* different skills/abilities/strategies to survive in either. Underwater the Merfolk can't use fire, they can be attacked by giant creatures coming from 3 dimensions, and water is slowly degrading their tools. Building structures and storing supplies would be very difficult once the water gets too deep to act as a base. (Although I suppose they could have drifting structures, wouldn't that be cool.) Above water they're now facing potential foes who spend 100% of their time on land and thus have more skills/abilities/strategies based on their surroundings. Land-dwellers have experiences with walls and arrows and wheeled carts and woodworking, things that are ineffective under water, and their inability to breath water or scent a drop of blood in the current doesn't slow them down. They've got the home-field advantage even if they have the same homes just because they live there full time.

So! Time spent in the water leaves them weaker on land while time spent on land leaves them weaker in the water. Ultimately I see Merfolk sticking to the water where they have a concrete advantage over the other sealife (tool usage, trade, fingers, etc) and maintaining minimal trade presence in port towns and using very small islands to store things vulnerable to water like paper, metals, or other liquids.

Now, magic. If they have magic that's an advantage! Sure. But do other creatures have magic too? Is their magic tied to the sea or water? How far is that effective range? You, as a world builder, could easily stack the deck and give Merfolk an empire that stretches over land and sea but their range will be limited based on their travel spreads and proximity to the ocean. Like, if I *really* need to be in the sea at the full moon I can never travel more than 2 weeks from the sea, and even then I'd just turn around and head right back.

I personally like the idea of stone age Merfolk because stone works perfectly well under water and doesn't have the issues metals would. But also mermaids aren't real and they can function any way you want them do =D

SA - whoops, took a break half way through and ended up having the same thought in the first and last paragraph. I am *not* proofreading anything =D

It's okay, I won't tell anyone. ;)

You put a lot of thought into this and I really appreciate it. I have to agree with you about the differences in environment and how they would have to either stick to one or, I suppose, possibly create different castes for each. That in itself then creates even more issues and questions.

Also, the idea of floating warehouses is really interesting. Although it does make me wonder if there is a way for them to work their way up the technological tree in a different way from humans that would allow for them to stay submerged. However, I don't think I know enough about technological growth to speculate on how that could happen without me throwing in magic, which you already covered.

Thanks, I love world building thought experiments! And also I think it's cool and good and smart to look at tropes and go "But why is it this way?"

And now let's think of ways that could lead to Merfolk being dominant.

How:

1) Resources - Maybe the environment is wrecked on land but Merfolk still have access to undersea mineral deposits. Maybe there's a fictional resource that gives them an advantage (looking at you vibranium) or long life or great strength. If you live 4x as long spending half your life at sea still gives you an advantage over humans. Also? Fish and salt are super important resources and controlling them would be a leg up

2) Magic - We've already covered it, but living in such a hostile-to-humanoid-life place would be really hard. If they've made it to the conquering stage they might as well have a legup. Also, from Cuthulu to Aboleths we've long imagined monsters in the seas. Maybe they have a powerful god or patron backing them.

3) Trade- This one's the biggie. This is how I'd do it, if I were the Napoleon of Mermaids. Traveling by water has been a huge deal since forever. You don't have to have a *road* (requires maintenance and geography to be on your side) and it's wildly more energy efficient. So you've got a culture of 110% perfect pirates who could strike at *any* time from underwater and kill basically without weapons just by pulling you into their home. Or they could drill holes and sink ships. They would be a NIGHTMARE! So if they can functionally control trade they could build up wealth and power, hire mercenaries, and build up a significant land presence. They could be Venice 2.0! They wouldn't be great fighters on their own, and if a big enough power decided to kick in their teeth on land it would *suck* but still.

Why:

1) Resources - They aren't going to be good at metal working or wood working and their food production is going to be limited BUT they could make the people on land do all that shit.

2) Stratified culture - If they're the only ones who can go under water then under water is their special place! They can colonize the land to extract that wealth for their water settlements. And their lower-class/non amphibious citizens literally can't partake in the better parts of their empire. The T H E M E S man, the parallels!

3) Mess rolls down hill - If land people are fucking up it'll end up in the ocean eventually. And it sucking being down stream of a bad neighbor.

Thank you for posting this, it's been fun!

What wealth could they even practically extract from the land though? There's a reason land humans haven't colonized all of the ocean floor and that's because most of the stuff we have up here won't hold up under water and struggles to hold up in any drastically different environment. Imagine the most exquisite land human food you can think of then imagine it under a bucket of seawater, is it still appetizing? Plus there's depth/pressure to think of. Can't even import livestock or servants or anything, they'd just quite literally get crushed and die.

So why bother to extract and import stuff that would quickly rot and break instead of using stuff that wouldn't? Especially if that involves potentially violence and risking your own people? It's not like the ocean is running out of rocks.

I'm trying to think of something they'd want to import but unless you changed how the world works *just so* they'd specifically want to import that product which seems a little on the nose and a forced plot, it's hard to imagine what it could be.

Gems, plastics, food stuffs (even if they aren't delicious farming is still a p.i.t.a.), glass, items that can then be enchanted to function underwater, blood sacrifices to their eldritch masters, wood/linen for boats, I could go on.

Also, they can easily spend time on land so they could happily build up regular city.

Look, living takes work. There will lways be folks who would rather make someone else do more of that work. ::gestures to all of human history::

Oh these are all lovely ideas. Thank you so much!

I agree with the trade route being the most advantageous to them. They could become an economic power house by providing the sea's bounties and acting as guides.

Though, yeah, the fact of "what can they bring back that wouldn't be ass underwater" is their biggest hurdle.

Edited 2024-10-10 06:07 (UTC)

Well now we're back to why living underwater is so hard =)

I could imagine almost a werewolf situation where they have this "civilized" empire but they swim around eating raw fish and sinking ships to let out aggression.

That would be really fucking funny, actually.

Ooh! Ooh ooh ooh! OOH! ::waves hand like a 4th grader::

The fact that bringing things to the ocean isn't a flaw, it's a feature! (Wrt storytelling)

Cracking open a bottle of wine to let it dilute around the room of your under sea home like incense is just like lighting incense. Wearing expensove clothes that won't last under water is just like wearing clothes that won't last on land. You feel me? These mother fuckers could be doing Shein hauls and eating gold leaf pizza with their tithes.

Wealth and domination as synonymous with waste and consumption destruction.

Your undersea dwelling masters keeping their shit from the poors (no mater how much it sucks underwater) as parallel to modern billionaires who want to colonize mars to get away from the filthy poors (mo matter how much it would SUCK on Mars. They don't even have an ionosphere!)

But no, yeah, the fact that it's dumb doesn't mean it isn't realistic.

:) A good point.

I was more thinking about how to make technology last. Yeah the food and signs of wealth works great, but if you want to smelt iron we start having a problem.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #6487 ]

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