[ SECRET POST #6794 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6794 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 21 secrets from Secret Submission Post #972.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[philstar22]

Sure. But a lot of time a bunch feminine traits are added to a tomboy or more masculine character specifically because male audiences would find them too powerful and want to see them weakened. Which doesn't mean feminine traits are actually weakening. But that's how men view them, and media tends to cater to the male gaze.

Also, while there is no one 100% one or the other, there are plenty of women who are extremely masculine. And if we ever get that type of character at all, they are always a background character, never in the front.

[(Anonymous)]

All right, but that's a pretty different ask than, "someone with no feminine traits."

[philstar22]

What I mean by that is no overtly feminine, like the traditional things people think of. There are lots of things that are slightly masculine or slightly feminine or not either at all, but they aren't the things you think of when people say feminine or masculine. And yes, I would say there are people out there who don't have one or even either set of overt traits.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the problem for me is that, as far as I can tell, what people count as "overt feminine traits" is incredibly broad and seems to include any indication that a woman has emotional range or interest in other people. Characters that I see as rather masculine (strong, physical, assertive and sometimes aggressive, brash, disagreeable, reserved, unconcerned with appearance, interested in masculine-coded pursuits, etc) are considered to still be feminine because...they don't have short enough hair (long hair can be masculine), or they have a romantic/sexual interest (romantic/sexual interest can be masculine), or they express an emotion other than anger (men fucking love people and they cry!).

The bar, as far as I can tell, is so high as to be unclearable. Like, I know real-life masculine women. I know butch lesbians, who work in construction and hang out with mostly guys. They do not meet fandom's criteria. They all have something about them that is "feminine." And this makes me think, honestly, with no shade to you, that this is ultimately about larger cultural attitudes toward women as a class than it is about masc vs fem. We are never, ever, ever good enough.