Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2009-11-01 06:44 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2009-11-01 06:44 pm
[ SECRET POST #1031 ]
⌈ Secret Post #1031 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
101.
__________________________________________________
102.
[Friends]
__________________________________________________
103.
[NCIS]
__________________________________________________
104.
[Legally Blonde/Ace Attorney]
__________________________________________________
105.
[De Cape & De Crocs]
__________________________________________________
106.
[Monk]
__________________________________________________
107.
[Mew]
__________________________________________________
108.
[X-Factor]
__________________________________________________
109.
[NCIS]
__________________________________________________
110.
[Skins]
__________________________________________________
111.
[Psychonauts]
__________________________________________________
112.
[Better Off Ted]
__________________________________________________
113.
[Fist of the North Star]
__________________________________________________
114.
[Making Fiends]
__________________________________________________
115.
[Death Note]
__________________________________________________
116.
[Katekyo Hitman Reborn!]
__________________________________________________
117.
[Heroes]
__________________________________________________
118.
[House]
__________________________________________________
119.
[Monk]
__________________________________________________
120.
[craig ferguson ]
__________________________________________________
121.
[Shugo Chara]
__________________________________________________
122.
[Iron Man Armored Adventures]
__________________________________________________
123.
[The Irrefutable Truth About Demons]
__________________________________________________
124.
[Megaman X: Command Mission]
__________________________________________________
125.
[American Idol]
__________________________________________________
126.
[Sean Lennon and Dhani Harrison]
__________________________________________________
127.
[James Sutton/Hollyoaks/Emmerdale]
__________________________________________________
128.
[team fortress 2]
__________________________________________________
129.
[Star Trek, Star Wars: KOTOR]
__________________________________________________
130.
[Pushing Daisies]
__________________________________________________
131.
[Harry Potter]
__________________________________________________
132.
[Tekken, LoZ/SSBB]
__________________________________________________
133.
[Fusion Fall]
__________________________________________________
134.
[Terry Pratchett]
__________________________________________________
135.
[House]
__________________________________________________
136.
[Dragonheart]
__________________________________________________
137.
[Ghost in the shell 2: Innocence]
__________________________________________________
138.
[The Thick of It]
__________________________________________________
139.
[Youtube Let's Play]
__________________________________________________
140.
[Supernatural]
__________________________________________________
141.
[YGO]
__________________________________________________
142.
[Bandom]
__________________________________________________
143.
[Michael Sheen, A Song of Ice and Fire]
__________________________________________________
144.
[White Collar]
__________________________________________________
145.
[Brooke Davis/Sam Winchester, Sam McPherson/Brooke McQueen]
__________________________________________________
146.
[The Hot Chick]
__________________________________________________
147.
[Torchwood, Fourteen]
__________________________________________________
148.
[Sengoku Basara]
__________________________________________________
149.
[Skins]
__________________________________________________
150.
[Nathan Willett, CWK]
__________________________________________________
151.
[Strictly Come Dancing]
__________________________________________________
152.
[Wes Anderson's Fantastic Mr. Fox]
__________________________________________________
153.
[The Office]
__________________________________________________
154.
[Sgt. Frog]
__________________________________________________
155.
[Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Harry Potter]
__________________________________________________
156.
[Smallville/Legion of Super-Heroes/REBELS/Batman Begins/Scrubs/The Office]
__________________________________________________
157.
[Phineas and ferb]
__________________________________________________
158.
[Star Trek, Perry Rhodan]
__________________________________________________
159.
[Shortpacked]
__________________________________________________
160.
[Real Genius]
__________________________________________________
161.
[Drake and Josh]
__________________________________________________
162.
[Shakespeare in Love]
__________________________________________________
163.
[ThatGuyWithTheGlasses.Com]
__________________________________________________
164.
[Sesame Street]
__________________________________________________
165.
[Phantom of the Opera (Leroux)/Lord of the Rings]
__________________________________________________
166.
[Bored to Death]
__________________________________________________
167.
[White Collar]
__________________________________________________
168.
[Tombstone, Val Kilmer]
__________________________________________________
169.
[Karla]
__________________________________________________
170.
[Dylan McDermott]
__________________________________________________
171.
[Jesus Christ/Lucifer]
__________________________________________________
172.
[criminal minds]
__________________________________________________
173.
[White Collar]
__________________________________________________
174.
[The Sandman]
__________________________________________________
175.
[Kate Beaton/Hark! A Vagrant/Mystery Solving Teens]
__________________________________________________
176.
[Harry Potter/The Trial of Larry Langford]
__________________________________________________
177.
[[Class of the Titans]
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 20 pages, 485 secrets from Secret Submission Post #148.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
Oh, also? The manga also says that Zelda's mind was sealed away (http://www.onemanga.com/The_Legend_of_Zelda_-_Ocarina_of_Time/13/13/). In that case, whose mind is it? And Link is pretty firm (http://www.onemanga.com/The_Legend_of_Zelda_-_Ocarina_of_Time/14/03/) on considering Sheik as a separate, non-Zelda person.
We know nothing about those seven years. Yeah, Zelda might have sat around for seven years, or she might have done something else. We only see Sheik while Link is awake - in that case, what did HE do over those seven years? And I find it sad that people only think Zelda is awesome if she has to pretend to be male. If she's feminine, that makes her weak, right? Yeah. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Okay, so she doesn't have badass ninja skillz (if she was Sheik, why didn't she jump out of that ring of fire in Ganon's castle when their lives were in danger?). So what? Neither do I! Doesn't make her weak.
Look, the actual game canon is ambiguous to the point that it can be interpreted in about half a dozen ways and still be consistent with what is presented. The manga doesn't clear a lot up, short of providing one of those explanations. It COULD be Zelda's mind in a physically male body. It could be an entirely different mind - the manga is pretty firm on the fact that Zelda's mind was sealed away. Indicating that it's a DIFFERENT mind. Just about the only explanation that doesn't work is Zelda in drag, because no WAY Sheik's body structure is feminine! I know girls who have crossdressed, it doesn't make you look like Sheik.
Oh, and just to keep this in one comment, you commented below:
But even if the personality is male, her anatomy is still female -- thus, she is technically female, and the slash pairings wouldn't work anyway. :/ I mean, unless she went through medieval surgery/spellwork to change her physical anatomy, but I just don't even know if that would be possible and I'm not sure I want to think about it that far, because that could get into some very messy details.
Uh, magic, maybe? (I am quite happy to say it was Zelda's mind in there with a physically male body, but that's just ONE interpretation.) Since, you know, there is evidence of it in the games. If you can give me a plausible explanation on how non-magical means (chestbinding, armour padding, medieval contact lenses and being a quick-change artist, apparently) can physically change someone's colouring, entire proportions (Zelda: hips and shoulders at same width, smaller waist than both hips and shoulders, narrow arms; Sheik: broad shoulders, narrow hips AND waist, muscled arms), and physicality, I'd be pleased to hear it. Seriously. I'm a science student, I'm open to convincing evidence!
no subject
And yes, Zelda's MIND was sealed away. Another PERSONA was created. That nixes out the theory that it was a different person (as in, a different physical body). That also says nothing of the anatomy, and in fact leads us to believe that her anatomy stayed the same. And either way, while I do adore the manga and while I think it proves my point, the manga isn't canon. It's like comparing the Pokemon manga/anime to the Pokemon games. The canon just isn't the same and doesn't fit. After all, if it did, you'd also have to believe that Volvagia was Link's pet dragon from his childhood, as just one example for how it doesn't really fit. But in any case, Sheik is still Zelda in the manga. They aren't separate physical individuals, which is what I'm talking about.
You're also taking what I said and twisting it in order to suit your own purposes, something that I don't like. I never said that Zelda had to pretend to be male in order to be badass, so please don't try to twist me into some sort of female-character-hating-fandom-pariah in order to befit your argument.
We can assume that Zelda -- as Sheik -- was going around to repair the damage. And we also know that -- during the course of the gameplay when Link wakes up -- she was still going around trying to help people -- freeing Ruto from beneath the ice, fighting the shadow in the Kakariko Well, etc. -- along with teaching Link songs in order to help him save Hyrule. Again, I repeat my earlier question: if Zelda wasn't doing that, then what was she doing? Sitting around waiting to be captured, I suppose, because there's nothing else that she could have been doing. It has nothing to do with pretending to be male or being weak; it has to do with the fact that there is no other role in the game for her otherwise. There's nothing more that she could have been doing to help Link on his quest, and to take that away from her and give it to some other character -- male or otherwise -- is detracting from the strength her character presented in the game. You better believe it takes strength to hide your true identity for seven years in order to try and save your people, especially when you lived a pretty sheltered life before that. It's the fact that she could pretend to be male for so long that made her strong, not the fact that she did, if that makes sense.
As for why she didn't jump out of the ring of fire, there are two possible explanations:
1) She wasn't in her Sheik costume at that point, and performing ninja acrobatics in a long gown would be rather difficult, IMO. Not that I've tried, but I can only imagine.
2) For the sake of story. Nintendo did not want Zelda helping in the final battle against Ganon (except to hold him in place at the end), and so she didn't do it.
As for the body structure . . . just, come on. The actual game was on the Nintendo 64. While I love the N64 and while the graphics were great for its time, it's not the Wii or any of the newer gen games. They didn't even have easily distinguishable fingers in that game. The graphics were blocky and not all that great. Fact is, the game states pretty clearly that Zelda was Sheik. I don't know if you remember this, but there's this little scene in the Temple of Time after you awaken Nabooru in which Link receives the Light Arrows, and in that same scene there's a flash of light which changes Sheik from Zelda. Zelda then tells you that she was Sheik the entire time, that she disguised herself as a boy for seven years in order to hide from Ganondorf. To me, that's pretty definite.
Also, Sheik's arms looked pretty narrow to me, but then again, so did everyone's save Darunia and Ganondorf. Because again, these were N64 graphics, and OoT wasn't meant to be the most realistic game around with stunning, top-notch graphics that would last through the ages. For the eyes and skin tone, okay, I'll give you magic. But again, that's only part of the disguise that Princess Zelda used to make herself appear as a boy for seven years.
no subject
You cannot make that assumption. We know these facts: that Zelda's mind was sealed away, and that Sheik has a mind. Whether that's another persona or another separate mind is never actually stated - it can go either way. Like I said, what evidence we are given is ambiguous. As for the body, I'm going to defer to the game for that - Sheik's body shape =/= Zelda's body shape.
You're also taking what I said and twisting it in order to suit your own purposes, something that I don't like. I never said that Zelda had to pretend to be male in order to be badass, so please don't try to twist me into some sort of female-character-hating-fandom-pariah in order to befit your argument.
Apologies. I HAVE seen people who have argued that and I made a connection. My bad.
We can assume that Zelda -- as Sheik -- was going around to repair the damage. And we also know that -- during the course of the gameplay when Link wakes up -- she was still going around trying to help people -- freeing Ruto from beneath the ice, fighting the shadow in the Kakariko Well, etc. -- along with teaching Link songs in order to help him save Hyrule. Again, I repeat my earlier question: if Zelda wasn't doing that, then what was she doing?
We can't assume any of that. We're not TOLD what happens during those seven years. We DON'T know what Zelda was doing for those seven years, or what Sheik was doing, or what Impa was doing, or what Malon was doing, or what Saria was doing, or what Ruto was doing, or hell, even what Ganondorf was doing. I suppose that is why there's such thing as fanfiction - make it up! We're not told anything, so fill in the blanks. She doesn't have a role in the game? So did a lot of other Zeldas. What was TP!Zelda doing the entire time during the game? Being either locked up in a tower after having previously surrendered or sealed away inside Midna!
1) She wasn't in her Sheik costume at that point, and performing ninja acrobatics in a long gown would be rather difficult, IMO. Not that I've tried, but I can only imagine.
Well, she magically changed out of it in a flash of light, didn't she? Surely she could magically change back into it if their lives were in danger? I mean, seems to me that that would be practical.
2) For the sake of story. Nintendo did not want Zelda helping in the final battle against Ganon (except to hold him in place at the end), and so she didn't do it.
Or, 3) She couldn't do it because she didn't have the same abilities that Sheik had.
As for the body structure . . . just, come on. The actual game was on the Nintendo 64. While I love the N64 and while the graphics were great for its time, it's not the Wii or any of the newer gen games. They didn't even have easily distinguishable fingers in that game.
Which is why I was going off the official art. Sure, the graphics are ambiguous. The official art? Is not. Compare: Zelda (http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/File:Adult_Princess_Zelda_(Ocarina_of_Time).png), Sheik (http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/File:Sheik.png).
And she says, "I apologise for meeting you in disguise". Present tense. Yes, she met him in disguise - in that scene. And a magical disguise would still be a disguise. So would a living one (the duality scenarios).
But again, that's only part of the disguise that Princess Zelda used to make herself appear as a boy for seven years.
Okay, explain Sheik's torso and arms. Using the official art, which, in lieu of realistic graphics, is the best possible depiction of those two characters. Yes, magic is an explanation. But if you go as far as to change your entire bone structure, muscle structure, and internal organs - as required by the vastly different body shapes - why would you leave female traits? Why not go the whole way? I don't mind it being Zelda's mind, there's nothing that contradicts that, but seriously, it's a male body.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2009-11-02 03:03 am (UTC)(link)I mean, I agree with Lljscraws (sp?) that, in terms of canon, Sheik is really Zelda in disguise...but I still prefer Sheik as his own person and there is some evidence to support that. I think you gave out really good points ryttu3k :D I also want to add this one too.
So yeah, remember when Sheik is in the illusion desert with Link and doesn't see anything in it? http://www.onemanga.com/The_Legend_of_Zelda_-_Ocarina_of_Time/12/16/
If Sheik was still mentally Zelda, she would see past memories of Hyrule being taken over by Ganondorf or other such bad memories right? Sheik is technically a living disguise and therefore doesn't have any of those memories at all.
I'm not saying this is canon though, I get annoyed too when people mistake fact over fiction. But I'm tired of being lumped into that group of "crazed yaoi fans that refuse to see Sheik=Zelda". I'm not really a fan of yaoi anyways dhshljksd (not that it's OMG BAD, its not my cup of tea really :/). I just think Sheik is an interesting character D:
no subject
And yeah, Sheik's definitely an interesting character. And because we don't know a lot about him, that's when fanon and headcanon comes into play! You know, using your imagination ;)
But yeah, thanks :)