Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2009-11-10 05:02 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2009-11-10 05:02 pm
[ SECRET POST #1040 ]
⌈ Secret Post #1040 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
101.
__________________________________________________
102.
[That Guy With the Glasses]
__________________________________________________
103.
[Doctor Who]
__________________________________________________
104.
[Hetalia/Say Anything]
__________________________________________________
105.
[Tekkonkinkreet]
__________________________________________________
106.
[Persona 3 and 4]
__________________________________________________
107.
[Iron Man Armoured Adventures]
__________________________________________________
108.
[Julia Nunes/Jake/Amir]
__________________________________________________
109.
[Where the Wild Things Are]
__________________________________________________
110.
[Zeta Gundam]
__________________________________________________
111.
[Supernatural]
__________________________________________________
112.
[500 Days of Summer]
__________________________________________________
113.
[The Jungle Book]
__________________________________________________
114.
[Kal Ho Naa Ho, Amélie]
__________________________________________________
115.
[Eli Roth/Blueberries/Inglorious Basterds]
__________________________________________________
116.
[Supernatural]
__________________________________________________
117.
[Heroes]
__________________________________________________
118.
[X-Factor]
__________________________________________________
119.
[V (2009)]
__________________________________________________
120.
[Lackadaisy]
__________________________________________________
121.
[Battlestar Galactica]
__________________________________________________
122.
[Arrested Development]
__________________________________________________
123.
[Star Trek XI]
__________________________________________________
124.
[Supernatural, Heroes]
__________________________________________________
125.
[iCarly]
__________________________________________________
126.
[Gorillaz]
__________________________________________________
127.
[Gundam 00]
__________________________________________________
128.
[The Spoony Experiment/That Guy With the Glasses]
__________________________________________________
129.
[Rocky Horror Picture Show]
__________________________________________________
130.
[Giftpia/Captain Rainbow]
__________________________________________________
131.
[The Twelve Kingdoms]
__________________________________________________
132.
[Mina and the Count]
__________________________________________________
133.
[Drake and Josh]
__________________________________________________
134.
[Newsies, Sloan]
__________________________________________________
135.
[Cillian Murphy & Liam Neeson]
__________________________________________________
136.
[Rachel Leigh Cook]
__________________________________________________
137.
[Glee/Apollo Justice]
__________________________________________________
138.
[Drake and Josh]
__________________________________________________
139.
[Mad Men]
__________________________________________________
140.
[Haley Joel Osment]
__________________________________________________
141.
[SMT III: Nocturne]
__________________________________________________
142.
[Girl Genius]
__________________________________________________
143.
[Ghostbusters]
__________________________________________________
144.
[Zombieland]
__________________________________________________
145.
[Thomas Kretschmann & Adrien Brody]
__________________________________________________
146.
[My Girl]
__________________________________________________
147.
[Rivers Cuomo/Sara Bareilles ]
__________________________________________________
148.
[there she is]
__________________________________________________
149.
[Sherlock Holmes]
__________________________________________________
150.
[Utena]
__________________________________________________
151.
[Flash Forward]
__________________________________________________
152.
[Team Fortress 2]
__________________________________________________
153.
[Michael Buble]
__________________________________________________
154.
[Steve Winwood/Val Kilmer]
__________________________________________________
155.
[NCIS]
__________________________________________________
156.
[Tim Kring, Heroes]
__________________________________________________
157.
[My Life As A Teenage Robot]
__________________________________________________
158.
[The Joker Blogs]
__________________________________________________
159.
[Moulin Rouge]
__________________________________________________
160.
[The Tudors]
__________________________________________________
161.
[World of Quest]
__________________________________________________
162.
[Star Trek: Voyager]
__________________________________________________
163.
[NCIS]
__________________________________________________
164.
[Wrestling]
__________________________________________________
165.
[Alex Rider: Stormbreaker]
__________________________________________________
166.
[McLeod's Daughters]
__________________________________________________
167.
[merlin/kaamelott]
__________________________________________________
168.
[Heard]
__________________________________________________
169.
[Buffy, Torchwood and Firefly]
__________________________________________________
170.
[Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends/Cartoon Network Fusion Fall]
__________________________________________________
171.
[The Mighty Boosh]
__________________________________________________
172.
[Flashforward]
__________________________________________________
173.
[Heroes/Torchwood/The Dark Knight]
__________________________________________________
174.
[Billy Bibbit/Angela Orosco]
__________________________________________________
175.
[Eastwick]
__________________________________________________
176.
[Fefe Dobson & Michael Seater]
__________________________________________________
177.
[MouseHunt/Avatar: The Last Airbender]
__________________________________________________
178.
[flight of the conchords]
__________________________________________________
179.
[Letter Bee]
__________________________________________________
180.
[Dragnet]
__________________________________________________
181.
[Simon Schama]
__________________________________________________
182.
[Cirque du Freak, Doctor Who]
__________________________________________________
183.
[Hurt]
__________________________________________________
184.
[Welcome to Dongmakgol]
__________________________________________________
185.
[Inspector Lewis/Laurence Fox/Alan Rickman]
__________________________________________________
186.
[Bleach/V for Vendetta]
__________________________________________________
187.
[The Dresden Files]
__________________________________________________
188.
[stay]
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 282 secrets from Secret Submission Post #149.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - why don't you check the comm you listed as the fandom? ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
Exactly right, Sam's tragedy is his failure, his string of failures really.
Sam actually did have flaws and had made mistakes - and serious ones at that
I never thought that Sam didn't have flaws, I just never thought "being evil" was one of them. He certainly has made mistakes, many of them in fact. At least one major one for each season. What would frustrate me was the fandom reaction that Sam was "evil" for having made mistakes, as if that isn't something human beings do.
to me, it was always Dean that felt like he needed to break out and be his own person
Who is more their own man than Dean Winchester? Except maybe Chuck Norris. Sure, Dean can be co-dependent, but no one is more certain of what he wants and then goes and gets it than Dean Winchester. His whole life, he's been doing what he loves doing- the family business. If he wanted to do something else tomorrow, there would be no stopping him. Dean is doing what Dean wants to do, always has. While Dean used to be the King of Co-dependence, after 5.03 even he realizes now that he is happier without Sam around.
I'd argue that both Sam and Dean are cannon fodder.
Yes, they are both cannon fodder now, but Dean could be more than that when it's over. Sam will probably never be his own man, not anymore. Yes, in S2, he may have "choose" hunting, but that was out of responsibility for failing to keep the hellgate closed. Just like S3 was all about keeping Dean from Hell (and failing), and S4 was about stopping the apocalypse (and failing). Yes, Sam enjoys hunting, but he once also wanted something more out of life. Sam used to want a college education, that's gone. Sam used to want a wife and family, that's gone. Since Dean and Bobby are the only two people in the world who don't want Sam dead, none of that is coming back either.
Where Sam once had a full scholarship to Stanford, now he can't even keep a busboy job. Dean is basically doing Sam a favor by letting him come back, and Sam knows it. Sam may have asked to be treated more like a partner, (and it's very big of Dean to agree) but in the final analysis, he's never going to amount to more than Dean's sidekick. I realize that it's good for the show to have Sam with no life except sitting shotgun, but for someone who once saw himself in Sam, it's a bit depressing.
no subject
Eurgh. I want anyone who thinks Sam is evil to go back and rewatch every episode with Sam in them. Sam can be callous. Sam can be frustrating. Sam is human and wonderfully so. How anyone can consider the guy from Faith to be evil, I've no idea. Even in S4, he wasn't evil! Prideful and misguided, sure, but evil? Good grief. You find anyone calling him evil, please direct me to them - I'll gladly meta debate that concept!
I think you and I have different ideas of Dean and Sam's characters, which is probably why we got off on a wrong foot before. :) IMHO, Sam is very much his own person, albeit somewhat lost and uncertain in S1. Dean, in contrast, has been shown to want other things than hunting but to think he either didn't deserve them or would fail at them. He specifically asked Sam if they could stop hunting in S2 and talked about how tired he was of all of it in Croatoan. His "wish" in 2x20 was for a normal life with a normal girlfriend, his normal mother, and normal job. And he was happy with it, until he realized that so many people would have died if he were selfish enough to want these things for himself. We learned in Skins too that he was jealous that Sam had managed to get out because that's what he really wanted for himself as well, but thought that he was too much of a freak to succeed and that John needed him too much to leave.
Dean's also never had the confidence that Sam had in terms of self confidence. Dean's self esteem is incredibly shaky - much of his confidence is blustering. It's not that he's manfully putting on a strong facade while secretly weeping into his Wheaties each morning, but there's a reason Bobby called him out on it in 2x22. We saw it again in S3, during that dreamroot episode when demon!Dean confronted him with it and S4 saw what little confidence that he'd managed to scrap together to be absolutely shattered in 4x16.
Yes, in S2, he may have "choose" hunting, but that was out of responsibility for failing to keep the hellgate closed.
Mm, the Hell Gate was opened at the end of S2 and Sam chose to continue hunting long before that. IMHO, Sam went back to hunting in S1 to kill the YED. He didn't have to do so; he knew that John and Dean were hunting the demon. It's in Sam's nature though to seek revenge. (Again - an incredibly human desire!) By S2, I think he wanted to keep hunting because he was worried about turning evil and so wanted to try and redeem himself ahead of time. "I can't turn evil if I spend all my time saving people!" and that sort of thing.
The reasons that you give are why I feel so much for Sam. Dean lost a lot, but outside of Hell, Sam has definitely lost more because he knows what it's like to have that normal life and then to have it wrenched away. Dean remembers losing his childhood at age four, but Sam remembers losing his adult life at age 22. It's kinda ying and yang in what they've lost, almost.
The idea that Sam will never be more than a sidekick is incredibly depressing and I'll have to disagree with you on it. D: IMHO, they're both in equal danger of losing everything that they are if they give in to Michael and Lucifer, but there's nothing to me indicating that they can't equally push past that and kick ass going forward.
Trust me, if the end comes down to Sam sitting on the sidelines while Dean and Castiel save the day, I'll be pissed. I want the series to end with Sam managing to collect his life again and to find something he really wants to do. Maybe not law, but something that he'll love and that he can be successful in. IMHO, he selected law - and I think was something like tax law, even - because it was as far from hunting as he could find. I want to see Sam all grown up and standing on his own. I want him to be happy because I think he's had precious little of that in his life. I just want the same thing for Dean as well, you know?