fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1046 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1046 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

THIS goes into effect starting with Submissions Post 151, as secrets were posted before the poll went up last week.

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 353 secrets from Secret Submission Post #150.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2- not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [
1 2 3 4 5 6 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm coming from the exact same place as you, my friend. (Also a guy in online fandom.) And I really agree with all you've just said here, though I think my first comment was a little unclear. I think I unintentionally implied that there's a right way to do misandry.

Ha, I mean, speaking as a gay man in online fandom, I find the insinuation that I might rape a woman not only offensive but a little puzzling. (Although rape is about power more than sexual gratification etc etc.)

Speaking as another gay man in online fandom (yey, I have legitimacy!) it isn't about you. When someone mentions "men" in general, they're not referring to you. When someone references men as rapists, they're making a general statement. Yes, it is sloppy. More men commit rape than women do, so it's not inaccurate. The finger isn't being pointed at you.

When you encounter a stranger on a street, in a bar, on the train etc etc you have no idea about them. From the perspective of a woman in a society with high levels of rape occuring to women it's reasonable to be cautious of an unknown value. When a woman see's me, she doesn't know I'm not a rapist. Nor does she know if I'm a victim of rape myself, or what my sexuality is. She'd be smart to act cautiously around a potential threat.

When I find myself in a 'straight' or mainstream bar (that is, hetero-favouring and no visibly queer presence) surrounded by drunk people, I'm cautious. I'm aware there's a potential for violence occuring for various reasons, and my queerness is a potential trigger for some of these people. When I encounter someone in this environment my immediate, knee-jerk reaction is to ask myself "Does this person wish to cause me harm?". The majority of the time, the answer is no. Still, that immediate filter is healthy. This is not to equate my experience with that of women, I have privileges they do not.

In this case the OP is overstating, not by very much though. You're understating though, and making the discussion about whether or not you're a rapist. While I hope you're not, and if you were I would hope you'd seek help, it's irrelevant to the discussion.

Holy fuck, thank you for a) getting it, b) explaining it in such a non-fail way.

I agree with most of what you've said here -- and I have the exact same reaction to nonqueer spaces -- but here's the thing.

The overstatement itself is actually what I'm taking issue with. I think overstatement of that kind eliminates anyone's ability to have a civil discussion. Am I, as a male, going to be offended by a statement like "all men are, by their very nature, potential rapists"? Uh. Yes.

I may agree with the sentiment behind it -- that women are the victims of sexual violence and that men are (most commonly) the perpetrators -- but the statement itself is offensive, hateful, and gets you absolutely nothing except a bunch of very upset people.

Hold on, where did the OP even say that? The gist of the secret is that she feels frightened and is afraid to trust any men. That's an overreaction, sure, but IMHO it's an understandable reaction if she's led a sheltered life and only just now was exposed to these statistics. (And no, it is NOT the same as saying "I'm afraid of black people," Jesus Fucking Christ.) I see other people in this thread wielding variants of that phrase, but the usual meaning behind that is not "all men are rapists" or "all men are inherent rapists" but, yes, "all men [you come across] are potential rapists." That's something a lot of women (I don't want to say most because I don't know) have in the back of their minds always as a safety precaution.

And maybe it's hurtful for men to hear that and I'm sorry, but that's the reality of a lot of women's lives. We're living our own lives and then bam, something threatening comes along to shake us out of the safety bubble. I had to change my grocery store this week because an employee kept giving me this look of ice cold hatred the likes of which I last saw coming from a different man who ended up attempting to injure me and rape my friend. The last straw was when grocery store guy pointedly stood in the middle of the parking lot and watched me the entire time I walked back to my car in the dark. Fuck yes I was afraid, who wouldn't be? But what am I gonna do, tell the manager he gave me a funny look? So much of it is gut feeling and a little bit of healthy paranoia. If you want another example? I can't take a certain bus line here in town because there's one man always on it who followed me for eight blocks straight the last time I got off it. Another? All the girls at my college campus knew not to be alone in the library stacks on a certain floor because it was out of view and this one man used to try to fondle young women there. There's things like that all the time: avoid this, don't go there, don't be alone at night. I feel so frustrated and infuriated that my life contains these few little seconds of fear every now and then just because I'm a woman.

Most men are wonderful and I've been in love with one for years! I just wish I could make you understand. I think a lot of men just don't get it because they're good guys and of course they're friends with other good guys, so that's all they know of men. They don't encounter the staggering number of utterly repulsive creepos on a week-to-week basis.

I think I understand some of it due to being gay and visibly gender variant, for which I get a lot of shit from straight guys, but obviously not to the degree that women do. I feel like there's a lot of miscommunication going on -- I'm a gender studies nerd, I've read Dworkin, I appreciate the examples you've listed above and understand that women face these issues regularly -- I just think that making a statement as inflammatory at the OP's is wrong, unproductive, and hateful.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree? The OP, if not a troll, is majorly overreacting! No, men as a whole don't deserve to be tarred with that brush. I also don't think she'll hold such an extreme viewpoint for very long, at least I hope not. But honestly it just bugged me to see a secret which said "I'm afraid of men, and I'm afraid I'll never be able to trust" and a response which said "you're being mean to men, you misandrist!" :\

I want to point out that all men you come across are not potential rapists. You have a responsibility to treat them as potential rapists, but that doesn't mean that they in fact are. A minor distinction, but it's important I think.

Obviously, there's a certain amount of suspicion which it is appropriate to lay on any stranger - indeed, any person. You shouldn't trust anyone completely without a great deal of experience with them, and it's wise to be cautious.

Obviously, it's equally wise to be more cautious around men, to keep in mind the possibility of sexual assault, and to take reasonable precautions against that.

But that in no way equates to anything near "NEVER TRUST ANY MAN. YOU ARE NEVER SAFE. CONSTANT VIGILANCE." There's about a mile of difference between those positions. There's a huge difference between caution and, frankly, paranoia. And that's what worries me.

it isn't about you. When someone mentions "men" in general, they're not referring to you.

Lol discrimination and making assumptions about whole groups of people. It's not about you, it's about the suffering of the people making discriminatory statements!

lol "discrimination" against men

[ SECRET POST #1046 ]

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