[ SECRET POST #7012 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #7012 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 15 secrets from Secret Submission Post #1001.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/f91ec7bb9f74.png

Transcript by OP

[fscom]

"It is just bad writing I hate" People say as if there wasn't plenty of bad writing in the things we're all nostalgic over. When you only make that complaint towards new things that happen to have more POCs, women, and LGBTQ characters and not towards anything else, I really don't buy it.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh. It's not that bad writing in other areas don't bother me, but as a non-POC who really wants to see, for example, more non-western fantasy... it's aggravating to find a piece of media that sounds promising and exactly what you wanted with a great concept but the writing is just underwhelming.

[(Anonymous)]

Sometimes shit is just straight up bad, but more often than not I see people nitpick apart something that's trying but is perhaps a little clumsy, or just not that overly serious in the first place. While white-dude media gets a pass no matter how bad it is. At some point it's very clear that the bar is just so much lower for white-guy media and it's depressing as fuck to see this in fandom as well as everywhere else online.

[philstar22]

The bar in general is much lower for white guys. See: Voting for an absolute failure felon white guy over a competent but not quite perfect black woman for president here in the US.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT.

Ah, yeah. I wasn't thinking irl when writing my comment but you are absolutely right and I think I'm going to go to bed now with that depressing reminder in my head. xD

Have a good one!

[(Anonymous)]

Ehhh, yes and no? Obviously some people use the "bad writing" argument to disguise their prejudices.

HOWEVER. The kind of bad writing that is often present in things that are clearly focused more on "wokeness points" over storytelling is usually a different kind of bad writing than the bad writing in things we're nostalgic over.

The bad writing of a lot of late-90's and early 00's TV, for example, can often be nostalgic for a lot of us because of its relative guilelessness. It was often crap, but it was crap in a "We have 22 episodes to get made, no time for research or rewrites, and no budget for research consultants; all plot explanations will be sourced directly from our asses, and if something truly fucking moronic has to happen to arrive at a particular story beat, then so be it," kind of way.

It was a half-baked hot mess, but a lot of people worked very hard to serve you that half-baked hot mess, and if they hadn't worked so hard and cared so much, it would've been unbaked cold slop.

The modern epidemic of hollow, cash-grabby, second-screen content slop feels like a different kind of bad writing. It's the kind of content that people feel contempt for because you can tangibly feel that the foundational goal of the project was never actually to make something good. The foundational goal was easy profit. And the kind of writing that announces its ~progressive values~ to the audience, but can't be bothered to actually craft a story that exhibits those values in a coherent and engaging way, is something that shows up fairly often in this specific type of modern bad writing.

On a totally separate note, I don't think the things a person is nostalgic for are particularly indicative of that person's taste in the present. That's kind of...the nature of nostalgia. It's a feeling something inspires in us not because of anything objective about that thing, but because of how it ties us to the past, and to our past selves. And sure, some people confuse nostalgic fondness for objective quality, but IMO most people don't. And furthermore, I would argue that often we feel nostalgic fondness for certain media not just in spite of it being bad, but because it's bad -- because it reminds us of a time when we were capable of such simple, uncritical enjoyment.

[(Anonymous)]

Well said. Thank you.

[(Anonymous)]

”The modern epidemic of hollow, cash-grabby, second-screen content slop feels like a different kind of bad writing. It's the kind of content that people feel contempt for because you can tangibly feel that the foundational goal of the project was never actually to make something good. The foundational goal was easy profit. And the kind of writing that announces its ~progressive values~ to the audience, but can't be bothered to actually craft a story that exhibits those values in a coherent and engaging way, is something that shows up fairly often in this specific type of modern bad writing.”

This right here is my biggest issue with modern shows and movies. My second biggest issue is that most POC in modern stuff are just generic white American (and usually suburban) characters who happen to be played by POC.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt but

"My second biggest issue is that most POC in modern stuff are just generic white American (and usually suburban) characters who happen to be played by POC."

IMO, this can cut both ways. On the one hand, I'm not comfortable with the idea that a POC character has to be super ethnic in order to count. Some of us are basic bitches. I grew up in the Midwest, I don't speak the native language of the place I was born. My family has retained some of the traditions of the old country, but also adapted many traditions of the place we moved to ,i.e. the generic mostly-white suburbs.

To a lot of white people, my appearance marks me as foreign, period. To the people of my own background, I seem white... and American. It's an uncomfortable place where one group considers you to be too Other and your own peeps think you're not ethnic enough to be considered a True POC.

[(Anonymous)]

"This POC character might as well have been white" is a complaint used almost exclusively by the same group of people who would say "This POC is a racial stereotype/token" if the character's race is relevant in any way. They have a convenient, leftist-acceptable reason on hand no matter what type of POC the character is. And when you put them together, the only solution is to have no POC.

[(Anonymous)]

Well said!

[(Anonymous)]

This. There's more than one type of bad writing, and while some types can still be enjoyable, others really aren't.

[(Anonymous)]

If the person hates "Bad Writing" and it's coincidentally always minority characters or "wokeness" they think is unnecessary and they can't explain how or why it's bad or give examples of GOOD writing, yeah, it's usually dumb bigotry at play.

But there are so many women and POCs and queer characters that ARE badly written and/or shoved in as tokens or fetish material and it's not wrong to call it what it is when you see it. People who are in those groups who are looking for good representation are more likely to have criticism for characters in those groups when it's done badly, vs. being exhausted of generic cishet white male character #5487549857985 where there's nothing new to stay about him that generic cishet white male character #5487549857984 didn't already cover

[(Anonymous)]

Except that no one's ever criticising white het dude #6354, that's kind of the point. They get to exist, everything else gets discoursed to death and suddenly we're back at the point where we apparently need to justify women and people of colour being on screen in any meaningful capacity again

[(Anonymous)]

No one ever is a bold and easily disprovable claim.

Beyond that, not sure who or what you're arguing with that's talking about having to justify women and POC characters?

NAYRT

[(Anonymous)]

I think AYRT's point was that we don't expect anything from cishet white dude number whatever and don't care enough about him to spend the time thinking and discussing all the ways he's badly written. It's not giving characters like those a pass because we think they're less bad, we just don't care that they're bad and don't owe it to any whataboutists to spend our time also discussing white dude who we don't care about, just so we can make sure we don't get pointed at and accused of having double standards.

[(Anonymous)]

Usually white het dude #6354 is in something that isn't trying to pretend that it's somehow better than it is.

[feotakahari]

Are people saying these things are badly written, or are they actually badly written? Because I don't think putting up with bad writing in one circumstance ever obligates you to put up with something else badly written. "People are calling this well-written thing bad because it has minorities in it" is a completely different problem.

[iff_and_xor]

I consider most complaints about “bad writing” to be only a minor step up from “it sucks”, in that they’re still so vague that they doesn’t say much of substance about the work or your experience of it.

Of course I know that it can be hard to pinpoint what you don’t like or what isn’t working. But I see too many people complaining about “the writing” in broad terms, while acting like they’re saying something insightful or objective.

[deleted_scenes]

Ok, so in preparation for 28 Years Later, I watched the 28 Franchise for the first time.

Whoooo boy is 28 Days Later dated. Capable woman has survived for 28 days. As soon as she meets the male main character she's a helpless fawn who submits to being a broodmare for a group of dudes who Cillian Murphy has to rescue.

Gross, gross, gross.

I think The Bone Temple is my favourite of that series.

[(Anonymous)]

"As soon as she meets the male main character she's a helpless fawn"

This reminds me of 70s and 80s Bond films.

[(Anonymous)]

Ugh that's annoying.

This reminds me of times when I watch old shows or movies, and I notice things I didn't when I was young. Such as token girl/POC/gay characters who have little/limited personality. Or even just noticing that the only times POC show up are to be in the background or in group shots and there's usually literally only one POC. Or if a POC has any lines, it's a one liner and they play a nameless one scene character.
Or the woman character literally stands in the back until it's time to make a speech or support the main male lead/antagonist. She only exists to ensure the plot gets our lead where they need to go.

[(Anonymous)]

This is not how I would describe that at all but ok.

[(Anonymous)]

As a general, it is easy to blame it on bad writing. And while the writing likely is bad, it's often a lot more than that, especially in fields like music, movies, and tv shows.
To push for more, I often ask "Where did the writing fail?" Or "What was it about the writing that was bad?"

Not to say I ever get logical or actual answers, but it can help me understand what the person didn't like or what their tastes are.

The entertainment industry is suffering in extremely similar ways to most other industries. Every company is getting bought out by major corporations. Departments are being shut down or absorbed by another department, and given how AI is being pushed, the resources are shit and the employees are overworked and underpaid. It's a rotting onion where the rot goes deeper as you keep trying to unpeel the layers.

"Bad writing" can only excuse so much.