[ SECRET POST #1078 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1078 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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139. http://cozaweb.com/img/20081021cs52.jpg
[porn]


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161. [SPOILERS for Glee]



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162. [SPOILERS for Darker than Black]



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163. [SPOILERS for UNSEEN ACADEMICALS BY TERRY PRATCHETT]



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164. [SPOILERS for Dr Who]



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166. [SPOILERS for something but they didnt tell me what]



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167. [SPOILERS for Birth by Sleep]









Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #154.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Well, he did kind of say, "I did it - all of it - for you" (emphasis mine). Dean was at least no small factor in the decision-making process; no more general ideas about humans, here's a specific one, and whoa, does he have a point. Cas trusts Dean immensely, as evidenced by the behavior of future!Cas in relation to future!Dean.

Yeah, they've been suspicious of Cas all throughout S4, for good cause, but it's not like there wasn't a progression to where Castiel's loyalties lay, culminating in the S4 finale when Cas' actions evidenced that he no longer trusted his brothers or the Will of Heaven, but he trusted Dean. He doesn't have his own ideas exactly of how humanity works - Cas is looking at humans in completely differently light than what he's used to for the past 1,000 years - but he trusts Dean's perspective. I would think that Dean realizes this.

The not-coming clean part - we don't know what's going on with that. It hasn't been brought up AT ALL yet in S5, so we can't say that Cas hasn't owned up to it. The fake phone call hasn't been brought up, either, and that was equally huge as how it affected Sam's actions. If they never bring up it again in the show, we can say that was a plothole. If they bring it up and it gets glossed over, then it's bad writing. If they bring it up and Cas goes, "NOTHING TO DO WITH ME", then we can go into his hypocrisy.

And, you know, people who are neutral about his character don't find cause to view him skeptically. And, you know, I can do a neutral reading and see that the show intends him to be just an ally. As it takes work to view him as part of a possible ship, you'd have to put into the same amount of work to view him as a "shady" character. Really, the show doesn't intend that, at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Castiel's "I did it all for you" sounded to me like yet another way of him to push blame onto Dean like he also did with Sam in the anti-christ episode. He is using it as emotional blackmail, he did the same in "free to be you and me".

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with Castiel not owning up to his actions during 4 season if it wasn't because he specifically has used his own "sacrifice" to push blame on the brothers and not himself and have repeatedly criticized both Sam and Dean's choices but conveniently forgotten to mention his own screw ups. He has no right to pass any judgment over them when he is up too the neck deep in it himself. So his hypocrisy has been seen on the show more than once.

And, you know, people who are neutral about his character don't find cause to view him skeptically. Okay you might feel this way but that doesn't make it automatically true for everyone else. And who are you to say what intent the show has? It's all in the reading of it and entirely subjective for everyone, be you a skeptic, a fan, a neutral or a hater of Castiel.

[(Anonymous)]

And who are you to say what intent the show has?

Uh, the show's not that complicated. The way it portrays the brothers' relationship is unique to other stuff on TV, but the show pretty much wears its themes and issues on its sleeve. You may not always be able to predict where they're going with certain stuff, but you can pretty much tell how things currently are.

Castiel is a trusted ally of the boys; the only possible black mark against him is that moment in the last ep between him and Meg where is it was weirdly sexual. The fact that was it looked like he was about to kiss her - that's a neutral reading. What it could possibly mean, neutrally, in the worst case scenario, I think, is that Cas is going to experience more weakness of the flesh (as foreshadowed in "The End"), and that might result in being a liability in a critical moment. But that's just speculation. Now you could do a "Cas is shady" reading as say that he's going to get in bed with the demons at some point, and I can do my "I'm a Cas fan" reading and say that he was just stalling her until he could utilize her as a demon bridge. Or this could fall into the show's many plotholes and mean nothing at all. So again - it's not that hard to separate all these readings. We can debate what it all might mean, but as far as what's passed - they're pretty clear as to where all the players are currently at.

Now as far as Castiel blaming the boys: "You and your brother destroyed the world" - neutrally, that's pretty evident that he finds them culpable. But also neutrally, judging from his behavior, he doesn't harbor any ill-will or resentment toward them.

My interpretation as to the meaning behind all that: Cas was simply stating a fact. When he got in Dean's face in 5x02, Dean had been dissing his belief that he could find God, his father. The show being what it is about fathers, that's huge. That whole speech that Cas spouts off can be interpreted, "I've sacrificed a fucking lot for your sake, so you would do well to kindly shut the fuck up." And as far as Sam - the Antichrist was a huge threat to Cas' family, the other angels, and probably himself as well. Sam posits the question of what if the Antichrist makes the right choice, and Cas has to bring up, because it's true and letting the Antichrist live could have dire effects for him and his kind, that Sam didn't make the right choice. Fact.

But remember that Cas is willing to die for Sam now. He'll "die first" before he'll let Lucifer get to him. And he's obviously in Dean's corner. He trusts both the boys, is willing to go along with their plans - if he truly "blamed" them, in the wholly negative sense of the word - "your evil, neglectful, weak actions lead to this" - why would he trust them with anything? That would be like Dean trusting Ruby after she helped bring about the Apocalypse.

Now as far as Cas' culpability in letting Sam out of the panic room - personally, I think that a case of, literally, "I just opened the door, but you walked through it". Sam chose to knock Bobby out instead of asking him for help. Sam choose to seek Ruby out instead of his brother. How long would they have had to keep Sam there before he stopped feeling like he had to kill Lilith? It wasn't just the demon blood.

But it's not like Cas didn't feel like shit after he did it, just like he obviously felt like shit for turning Anna in. Hopefully when we see Anna again, both those things will get addressed, but honestly, Cas' actions really don't make a difference one way or another. Sam was hell-bent on that path, no matter what. A few more hours in the panic room wasn't going to change that.