[ SECRET POST #1107 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1107 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

No need to leave comments like "HERE AGAIN SINCE IT WAS FORGOTTEN THE LAST TIME I SUBMITTED IT," please. It was not forgotten. You submitted it three times to the same submissions post.

Secrets Left to Post: 18 pages, 448 secrets from Secret Submission Post #159.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 2 - doing it wrong ], [ 1 - ships it ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 - posted twice ], [ 1 - text secret (PROTIP: YOUR SECRETS MUST GO ON AN IMAGE)], [ 1 - comment asking how to submit secrets (PROTIP: THERE IS AN FAQ)].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[ipleadthe5th.livejournal.com]

For me it wasn't so much that Artie liked her because he thought she was disabled (and it kind of kills me that Kevin McHale thinks that's what it is :/ I wish he'd speak to disabled people) -- it was

1) that Tina was benefitting from pretending to be disabled. For instance, imagine you're disabled and your friend tells you she's been pretending to be disabled for years to get healthcare benefits.

2) Artie is super nice and mild, because if he were any other way, people would ostracize him even more than they already do for being in a wheelchair. He can't afford to push people away. And Tina basically told him she pretended to be disabled so it'd push people away, and that he'd understand what she means because his disability pushes people away. That was kind of a dick thing to say, i.e. she doesn't understand what it's like for him.

Which doesn't invalidate all the other points made in the thread, mind you. They just weren't in the same wavelength, but hopefully that'll change in the next season. (Although I actually ship Artie with Quinn, ahaha.)

[(Anonymous)]

Seriously, THIS. I don't think that the series writers or the OP (or the people agreeing with them) really get just how often some of us with disabilities get that kind of "faking/exaggerating for special treatment" accusation- or how hurtful the stereotype is. (And then they go and pull the same trope a second time!) Artie has very valid reasons to be pissed off about her revelation, and I wish the show had gone into those those rather than playing it the way they did.

[ipleadthe5th.livejournal.com]

You know, I think the script addressed it properly and I even thought that Kevin McHale acted it well, in the sense that I got everything up there from his lines and performance alone. I was really surprised that he doesn't seem to understand Artie, because it totally seemed like he did.

That said, for an episode that was meant to be about him, there wasn't much Artie at all. They could've made his reasons clearer, I guess (but honestly, I thought they were clear enough! :|a), and I wish there'd been a follow-up to that scene in the four episodes that followed, oi. Instead, we're left with the smiley interactions during performances.

I'll come out and say that I appreciate that Glee puts these issues out there, even if they're doing it wrong, because at least it gets people talking about it. And it's a mainstream enough series that people might or can easily stumble into discussions like these, and educate themselves. So maybe Glee does it wrong, but as long as more series with disabled characters come out, and more people educate themselves, progress will be made.

[iteari.livejournal.com]

Agreed! I saw Tina having something like 'male privilege' or 'white privilege' almost. You know what I mean, only instead of race or gender, it was a handicap. She really had no idea what it was like to be handicapped, even when she and the other students had to pretend to be handicapped for a day.

I'm just hoping they'll expand her and Artie's storyline though I'm dubious on whether they'll write it right or not. Certainly with good intention, just not so good execution.

[ipleadthe5th.livejournal.com]

Able-bodied privilege . . . yes, exactly! I was trying to explain 2) concisely and you just did it for me. :D

I'm really hoping for the execution to be right (if it ever does happen), but I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't. At least, though, I know I can go online and read about the way it should've been done. :/

[iteari.livejournal.com]

Able-bodied privilege...

*snaps fingers* Yes! That! That's the word I was looking for.

I could understand Tina's reasoning since I've grown up with something of an anxiety disorder too, but I really think it was a step too far for her to go to. Especially since my younger sister and a former classmate of mine have been sufferers of the stuttering problem---and, yeah, so many kids were dicks to them about it too.

I remember a friend of mine was paraplegic. She used to tell me of her elementary school, and said she used to cry when people there actually told her ignorant things, like, how "lucky" she was that she didn't have to do gym or walk up the stairs.

It didn't help that she wasn't always wheelchair-bound (that she had been in a car crash when she was seven) so to hear people actually try comment on her so-called "luckiness" by people who had no idea what she went through...

...yeah, I can understand why Tina did what she did, but it sure as hell isn't excusable.

I think you can tell I have no tolerance for able-bodied privilege...

I'm thinking to write this whole comment to the Glee writers as a letter. I think I should ;)

[ipleadthe5th.livejournal.com]

Do it! It's hard to tell whether they'll take it seriously, because I read on handicapable activists' blogs that the Glee people (didn't specify whom unfortunately) were kind of dicks about their complaints. They focused on the complaints that Kevin McHale isn't disabled, but ignored the whole crip drag aspect of the complaints, and said that "Wheels" was going to address their concerns and show why they picked Kevin McHale as Artie. Which, you know. I love a lot of things about both Kevin as Artie and "Wheels" as an episode, but Glee people could've actually -- not dismissed the complaints with a handwave and a "Just watch the episode!"

On the other hand, I find the actors at least very open to viewers' responses. And it seems like they're going to be revisiting Puck/Rachel in the back nine just because it was so popular. So, who knows, they might even pay attention.

In the end, it looks like both Artie and Tina weren't empathetic enough of each other, which is very realistic of teenagers if nothing else. I hope they actually clarify in the show that they both mistreated each other, and why it was wrong of both of them.

[iteari.livejournal.com]

That's a shame about those writers. They might as well have stuck their fingers in their ears and go "Lalalalalanotlisteninglalalala!" *sighs*

I really hope they expand more on Artie and Tina at least. But let's just cross our fingers until then...

[ipleadthe5th.livejournal.com]

Siiiiiigh, yeah I know. I'm cutting them some slack though, because it might just be how Fox wants them to handle complaints. Sort of like what happened with Chris Colfer and Fox wanting to keep him closeted.

[kira-bouviea.livejournal.com]

Butting in here (sorry) to ask about the whole Chris Colfer thing. Um, what? Can you please explain, or link me to a site/entry that explains this, because this is the first I've heard of it.

[kelleah.livejournal.com]

She did know what it was like to be handicapped, just not physically handicapped. A psychological handicap can be just as debilitating as a physical one, but unfortunately, we live in a society that only cares what can be see or heard. Anything involving the mind is immediately diminished or dismissed as something that can be easily remedied.

[ipleadthe5th.livejournal.com]

I like your comment down there, but I also think that people are reacting to the writing. Going by the dialogue, Tina doesn't see herself as handicapped. She sees herself as "really shy," which wouldn't excuse her behavior. I don't think people would react like this if she'd said "I've got a social anxiety disorder, which led me to do shit like fake a stutter" or even "my shyness is so crippling that I started stuttering so people would leave me alone."

we live in a society that only cares what can be see or heard. Anything involving the mind is immediately diminished or dismissed as something that can be easily remedied.

Society can be just as inconsiderate of people with disabilities that can be seen or heard, as they can be of people with psychological handicaps. You're right, though, re: the belief that it can be easily remedied.

When it comes to Glee, though, people are having these reactions to Tina because the script made it sound like her shyness isn't a disability.

[kelleah.livejournal.com]

I understand that some people are reacting to the writing, but I also believe that people are by and large basing their reactions on their own prejudices moreso than thin writing. People are quick to judge because they want to judge, not necessarily because the writers didn't spell everything out for them in semaphore.

I'm well aware that society can be cruel to those with disabilities that can be seen or heard. I've experienced it first hand several times, so I don't need a lesson in that reality. However, generally speaking, society, especially American society, views psychological disorders as far less debilitating than many physical handicaps because they cannot often be seen or heard. Again, I'm speaking from personal experience in this area.

All in all, I don't believe it's the script to blame for the audience interpreting that shyness isn't a sympton of a psychological disability. I believe that's solely the audience doing. The reactions I've seen and read appear largely rooted in personal prejudices and ignorance more than anything else.

Also, I don't believe labeling yourself as "really shy" instead of "I have SAD" is a justification to grab pitchforks and torches because Tina lied. Tina may not know what she has or that it even has a name. All she may know is whatever's wrong with her led her to act a certain way. I've never absolved her of that behavior. I simply understand it.

[angerfish.livejournal.com]

+1

[iteari.livejournal.com]

It can be said that Tina might have a psychological handicap, but the writers just put it off as a girl that just so happens to be shy, which goes back to the reasoning of the secret which I can understand.

Do you think that Tina actually had the psychological handicap of pretending to be psychologically handicapped (i.e. her supposed stuttering) or that she was just being manipulative (not to be cruel so much as defensive against people around her)in faking it?

It's doubtful the writers are really going to delve THAT much into the psychology of characters however but it's interesting to think about.

It may be true that Tina has might have a psychological problem, but do you think that in a case like hers that it's enough to avoid personal responsibility?

It's just something I've been pondering myself...

[kelleah.livejournal.com]

I don't interpret Tina's behavior as simple introversion, so maybe that's why I disagree. Someone who would go so far as to fake and MAINTAIN a stutter (which is an undertaking within itself) isn't just shy, and I don't believe the writers played it that way.

Trust me, I'm not giving the writers a pass on the show, but I find this overwhelming desire some fans have to cruxify Tina isn't directly related to bad writing, but moreso to a desire to want to judge and condemn someone for something they themselves don't understand and can't be bothered to see as that big of a deal.

Tina's lying is manipulative. That's the whole point. She manifested a fake stutter to draw attention away from a greater problem that she herself may not fully comprehend. Yes, she was manipulative, and yes, she insulted Artie by pretending to have a physical disability to deflect away from her psychological/behavioral one. I understand why Artie's hurt, but I also understand Tina's behavior as well.

No one said anything about avoiding personal responsibility. If she wanted to avoid personal responsibility, she never would've voluntarily told Artie anything about faking the stutter in the first place. She's a child living in a cruel environment (i.e., high school) that creates wounds that can take decades to heal. I understand that need to keep your head down and simply get out alive.

And understanding someone's behavior isn't the same as absolving them from it. I think Tina was wrong. But my beef is with the fans who jumped to criticize her and diminish her problem as if it's no big deal. It seems pretty freakin' obvious to me that if she went through that much trouble to hide in plain sight, then what she's hiding is not something to be carelessly dismissed. By the writers or the fans.

[iteari.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying she should be looked down at all. I've said it before that the reason for her actions shouldn't be excused, but they are understandable. Is it enough to see her as some sort of martyr? That's debatable---something we'll have to see the writers expand on. And let's hope to God they do.

No one said anything about avoiding personal responsibility. If she wanted to avoid personal responsibility, she never would've voluntarily told Artie anything about faking the stutter in the first place.

That's not how I saw it. She wasn't really feeling guilty about what she'd done so much as she decided, 'hey, Artie and me really are alike so let me tell him' when obviously, no, it isn't the same thing.

It seems pretty freakin' obvious to me that if she went through that much trouble to hide in plain sight, then what she's hiding is not something to be carelessly dismissed. By the writers or the fans.

It could be said that she said a lie that kept snowballing, but I can see it as something about her that needs to be discussed sometime on the show.

I'm really trying to be neutral here, especially since I like Tina. But I am on Artie's side(for the most part.)

Oh, God, I really hope my tone doesn't come off snippy here.