[ SECRET POST #1126 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1126 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 078 secrets from Secret Submission Post #161.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

144. http://i45.tinypic.com/2cgn7gz.jpg

[bloods-a-rover.livejournal.com]

Woah, my interest is definitely piqued, now.

[kimoto.livejournal.com]

I read the book (parts) and saw the movie. And I agree in its own way it's art. You're not alone ;)

[archerstar.livejournal.com]

Well, any film that sticks with you after you've seen it, even with that kind of subject matter, and makes you think is a definitely worth artistic mention. If you don't like something, or if it's not good, you groan about it for a little bit and then you forget it.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that something being memorable necessarily makes it artistic. Cannibal Holocaust is memorable, but it's crap.

Chocolate and marmalade

[scarlet-carsons.livejournal.com]

I keep meaning to watch it, but I'm misanthropic enough as it is.

Re: Chocolate and marmalade

[(Anonymous)]

I love your subject because that's what I make myself think everytime I heard that movie's title. :|

[candystore-21.livejournal.com]

You know why this isn't a work of art for me, just like La Grande Bouffe for example? It's provocative in its repulsiveness, harsh commentary on the overfed/oversexed bored middle-class society, makes you think alright, but seriously lacks any kind of catharsis in the end.

Or hey, perhaps the catharsis is in the lack of catharsis? Like, there's no way out of the dead-end street we'd gotten ourselves into? It's empty and dissatisfying just like real life? Ok, I think I need to stop now.

Also, I heard the actors had a blast shooting this, lol.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

A lot will depend on your definition of "art," yeah. I used to define art as "something that, one way or another, helps me deal with being human." Salò… doesn't do that, it doesn't offer any solutions at all and it isn't really even a warning, but it does tell me/force me to internalize something about how human beings maybe operate. At some point I got to thinking of Art more in those terms.

Or hey, perhaps the catharsis is in the lack of catharsis? Like, there's no way out of the dead-end street we'd gotten ourselves into? It's empty and dissatisfying just like real life?

He said he wanted to make a film totally without hope. Erm… congratulations, Mr. Pasolini.

Also, I heard the actors had a blast shooting this, lol.

Oh, God, do I want that to be true.

[(Anonymous)]

Overrated as fuck.

And not nearly half as "sick" as the book.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Overrated as fuck.

See, I don't know much about its overall reception; the only way I'd heard of it, and the only discussion I'd read of it (prior to watching), was via my flist, where opinions generally touch on "pointless drivel" to "total wallbanger" to "pure exploitation with zero artistic merit," and are scathing all around. I can see why they think and feel as they do—and I don't mean that it's because they lack Artistic Sensitivity, or some crap—but I do think it qualifies as art. Not exactly a towering work of art, but art, i.e., more than just cinematic masturbation.

Being in something like the same camp as Catherine Breillat makes me want to punch myself in the face, but there it is.

And not nearly half as "sick" as the book.

So I understand, but I can't say that de Sade's original sounds more impressive for that. (Sooner or later, I'll probably read it to know for myself.) I've only read other de Sade novels, so I could be missing a lot, but what struck me overwhelmingly about Salò is that it seems less a response to Fascism (or capitalism, or even nihilism) than a response to de Sade and his idea of—or more like attempt at—extravagance. What's horrific about Salò isn't the excesses, or the particular scenes of torture, but the… the… the way it's so desultory. The four "libertines" act almost like robots following a recipe—like they've heard of this concept of lust and so they're going to (unlustily) sit down and devise the most textbook expression and indulgence of it there's ever been. The real debauchery consists in order and the death of desire, not chaos or impulse. When there's nothing you particularly want, then all is permitted. It's simply something to do.

It's horrifying, if you recognize even a sliver of yourself in it.

TL;DR, it's the embodiment and showcasing of that hollowness that I think makes it art and was worth filming, not the finger it gives to Fascism. Other works have addressed the political topics and done it better. Whether Salò was ethical to create is another issue; I don't know what conditions were like on set or how all participants felt about it, but I was stunned when I saw just how young those kids were.

[(Anonymous)]

This is how I felt when I watched a bunch of films by Richard Kern. Although I think Salò kind of trumps them on the OMGWTFMYSOUL scale.

[phonexwing.livejournal.com]

Justine and Juliette are much better than 120 days.
The other books had more substance and more philosophy. 120 days is just a huge list of disgusting scenes.

[(Anonymous)]

Despite Pasolini's stated intent to be completely faithful to Sade, the film and the book are very distinct.

[nezbit.livejournal.com]

From what I've heard about it, it was intended to be art. Just really disturbing art, but that's nothing new. Also that and anti-fascist undertones for the time in Italy when it was made, since the director was pro-Communist.

...That being said, I've only seen screenshots and it's not going on my Netflix queue anytime soon.

[matitablu.livejournal.com]

There is actually controversy about it; I know Pasolini once claimed he disliked it himself, but you never knew with the man :) Especially because it fits with his views on modern society and all that jazz. I liked it, in the end... but I still have to find the strength to watch it a second time after a few years. It *IS* uncomfortable to watch.

[mutantjules.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the rec, OP! *had never heard of that and is SURE WATCHING IT NOW*

[(Anonymous)]

OP would be curious to know what you end up thinking of it.

[honeysuckle-raw.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen it. I can appreciate the intent but, as with Cronenberg's Crash, I doubt it would engage me very much. Besides turning me on in a couple of places, the whole string-of-excessive-loveless-sex-to-show-how-obsessed-we-are-with-sex didn't make me think or feel much. I almost feel like, once you know what Crash and Salo are about, that's sort of enough.

[starshipblues.livejournal.com]

I just finished watching the movie because this secret piqued my interest.

I've been sick with a fever all day, so I may just be hallucinating, but oh I am disturbed. I'd say that anything that has had this much of an emotional and physical impact just by watching is art.

I have a very broad definition of art, but I think this movie has the potential to provide better understanding of the human condition. It makes us see part of ourselves reflected through all that sick and gross torture, and honestly, I think that legitimizes it as art. Like I said, maybe I'm just fevercrazy, but I can see where you're coming from, OP.

[martoufmarty.livejournal.com]

It's very special art.

I'm scarred for life by the movie.

To me it was very strangely and creepily thought provoking... Until 'The Circle Of Shit'. It lost me there.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, I do know what it's about, and I suspect you posted this to look intellectual and edgy, assuming nobody else would know or have seen it.

[(Anonymous)]

The secret was pretty much built on the expectation that people would know the gist; it's a ridiculously (in)famous film. It's just that in the circles where I run, calling it art gets you labelled an idiot and a philistine, not the other way around. It's sort of nice to find that there are people (like, real people, regular LJ denizens like me as opposed to fruitcakes like Catherine Breillat) who also thought it was worth thinking about.

[twyla-hime.livejournal.com]

The movie and book, nevertheless, does have it's supporters and those who see it as art. I've seen essays and critique of it. I don't think an exploitative piece of trash could spark such analysis and debate. There are two sides to the public's perception and reception of it. It's subjective.
So, yeah, despite the vileness, there were others who saw some worth or meaning to it.
(I haven't seen it, though. Despite my curiosity, it's probably better that I didn't. *shrug*)

[borasakchunsa.livejournal.com]

Oh man, you made a '120 days of Sodomy' secret. I never thought I'd see the day. I expect Cannible Holocaust and Ichi the Killer secrets now. ;D

But I guess I can see how it could be perceived as a work of art, but I very much doubt it's EVER be advetised/known as such. The way I perceive something gaining conciouse thought as a work of art is something the masses can agree on as pretty/meaninful/magnificent in a non-OMGWTFISTHISIFEELSICK kinda way. ;3