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⌈ Secret Post #1140 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Some out of order because LJ's being REALLY slow.

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 057 secrets from Secret Submission Post #163.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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why?

It's a matter of... mild frustration, I suppose, caused by mild annoyance, and constant disappointment, all coming together. It's hard to express, because I love the fandom and all the people I know in it.

I actually had a long explanation typed here but deleted it, because it was TMI and didn't really get the point across. Then I wrote a TL;DR version of it and deleted it as well.
Though there are many little things that pile up, what drives me away most is the often experienced disappointment of finding an interesting new story that seems to be TOS because the author didn't bother to mention what universe it's set in but used a TOS icon or mentioned in the summary that it was based on a TOS episode, happily reading it and finding out after five pages that it was AOS after all. Which usually throws me out immediately. A pity, really, because there were many good stories I would have read even in that universe had I actually known what to expect from the beginning. Like this, they leave me feeling only disappointed and thrown off and I don't want to look at them anymore.

That is, of course, a general problem in the fandom, not just in the ship war. But the ship war, in all its awesomeness, makes me feel extremely out of place. I don't even mind Reboot, and it's not like there's no TOS related stuff at all, but I just can't feel at home there like everyone else does.

Perhaps "leave the fandom" was too strong an expression. Rather, I feel I should stay away from mass activities and stick to the smaller but very nice comms that are limited to Classic Trek.

what drives me away most is the often experienced disappointment of finding an interesting new story that seems to be TOS because the author didn't bother to mention what universe it's set in but used a TOS icon or mentioned in the summary that it was based on a TOS episode, happily reading it and finding out after five pages that it was AOS after all.

I have to agree with you 100% on this. I don't mind that there's fic for both TOS and the reboot, but it'd be great if there was a requirement to state which universe the story takes place in. I hate thinking a fic is in TOS universe, and then finding out it was actually the reboot.

Which is why I generally stick to reading rarer pairings, because those are usually reboot exclusive, and then I go to non-lj sites (like the ksarchive) for when I want to read TOS fic. So I totally understand why that would be a frustration.

That's not a bad way to do it. Unfortunately, for me it doesn't work.
My favourite pairings are popular in both fandoms, and there's not a single one I like better in AOS than TOS. I don't think there's an archive still running for the stuff I'm looking for - all the sites haven't been updated in years.

Even as one of those 'new fans,' I can see the disappointment and frustration that you must be feeling. Trek has been such a strong and fantastic fandom for so long, but the reboot has allowed fans who didn't grow up with it to be involved. Unfortunately, however, for the originals who got swept in the undertide.

I'm really sorry for this- the only reason we have nu!trek is because there was TOS. And even as I try to emerge myself in TOS, its just so much easier to go with the flow of the new fandom. (Not justifying it- its the truth.) I love TOS, and can (usually) read the difference in fics, but because many fans don't bother to (because of the new fandom- not accusing at ALL) make a difference, they assume their readers will as well.

Ship Wars should be, and has tried to be a great place where new and old fans can come together to celebrate Trek. But I can definitely see where you are coming from with this, and think that maybe we can bring it to the mods attention to get posters to specify. Do you think that would help at all?

Also/otherwise, it would be nice to find a happy medium where TOS fans can introduce the new fans to the magic of the original, while the new fans learn to accept that they weren't there first and need to accommodate to that.

(Oh gods. No more projects for Luna. Lalala not listening to myself or the project faries, lol.)

I hope that helped! Would you mind if I brought this to the mods, or would you like to?

I wouldn't mind at all if you brought that to the mods. And I'm glad you're seeing my point and are considering my reasons instead of taking offense.

I made this a secret because I get along well with many fans who like both TOS and AOS and I fear they wouldn't understand but think I'm just a bitter classic fan bitching about the bigger new fandom, as many people replying to this secret seem to assume. That's not it. I'm glad Star Trek got revived, I'm happy everyone has fun. This is just me and my very personal feeling of not fitting in that has nothing to do with judging the fandom.

I just all too often feel like there's two fandoms that look exactly the same on first glimpse and most of the time I end up feeling like an invading alien.

I actually think that having all stories maked as TOS or AOS would help a lot, if only because it would bring to the attention that there are in fact two different Star Treks. There'd still be mostly (almost exclusively so far, I believe) AOS, but at least this little, unacknowldged hope that it might actually be the original for once wouldn't be there and I could enjoy the story as it is from the beginning instead of waiting for the moment of dissapointment all the time.
(I know I'm not the only one feeling this way. It came up a number of times in discussions on

fanficrants for example.)

If you made a project like that, I'd be totally in for it!

Well, I've messaged a mod and we'll see what she says back. :)

"I just all too often feel like there's two fandoms that look exactly the same on first glimpse and most of the time I end up feeling like an invading alien." I think this has a lot to do with the fact that the new fandom doesn't know how to deal with the old. Ignoring (whether intentional or not) seems to be the most popular way, which sucks.

But for some fics- do they need to differentiate? (I am referring, of course, to tribble fics, lol.) Some fics are just 'Trek.' Or are they? The author must have an idea in their head of who they are writing, but sometimes it seems like they switch back and forth (at least for the ones that know both) and even mix them up. Do you think those need to be labeled? And then, how would they be?

*and continues to hide from idea/project faries* Gods, if I wasn't so involved in Ship Wars, if I didn't have personal projects or tons to do in RL I would. I seriously would.

Perhaps this project is something to keep in mind for when the ship war is over and everyone has a little more time. It's definitely worth thinking about. (I was.)

I have no idea how to label fics that could be both. I only know that I usually stay away from stories that say "could be either TOS or Reboot", because there is a difference, not only in canon but also in the way the characters look and act. (For example, TOS McCoy wouldn't call Kirk "kid" - that would be plain weird. No one would consider the original Chekov an enthusiastic, naive virgin. And so on.) The authors must have had one cast in mind when they wrote their stories - just not mentioning Nero or Kirk's blue eyes doesn't make it TOS.

On the other hand, there are authors who write for TOS but say it could be both because they fear they wouldn't get any readers otherwise. (Not my experience, though AOS fics certainly get more comments. Also, I've had readers still assuming it was AOS despite me very clearly labelling a fic TOS. There's something to say about that...)

But the problem also exists the other way round: There are, for example, Reboot fics that still describe certain characters with features of their original actors; like Bones being blue eyed and skinny. I don't mind that personally because for me Bones is blue eyed and skinny, but if I was a Reboot fan expecting to read about the characters as I know and like them, it would piss me off.

To cut it short: I think telling the readers from the beginning what they should expect so no one will be disappointed is a good idea.

(It would be interesting to have a challenge where TOS and AOS writers are given a certain situation and have to describe how the characters from the different universes act through it to see the difference, not only in canon but also in the persception of the fandom. Of course, this would only work with writers trying to write them as close to character as possible.)

TOS but say it could be both because they fear they wouldn't get any readers otherwise.

I've done that (written TOS fic but said it could be both) and in my experience, I DO get more comments/reviews.

_{It's weird, but I sometimes get comments on my (clearly labeled) TOS fic like "Why didn't you mention Spock's relationship with Uhura?" or "Kirk's eyes are blue, not brown."}

I've gotten comments like that too. It seems that some fans aren't even aware that anything other than ST:XI exists.

(Another thing that really, really annoys me is when people in mixed communities tag their stories as both AOS and TOS just because old!Spock (aka Spock Prime) appears in them. I really wish sometimes they would acknowledge the difference.)

Those types of comments wouldn't bother me so much if I didn't get them so frequently (or if people would realize their mistakes :p But I've actually talked to a few nu!fans who think the movie was a prequel to TOS and think that some things in the Prime universe are the same in the nu!verse, like Kirk's eyes being blue, so... lol ignorance)

_{...Bzuh? That sucks. Reminds me of when someone asked for Prime!Spock/nu!Kirk on the TOS kink meme. I mean, if it's not set in the prime universe, it's not TOS. It's not a very difficult concept XD}

Ah, yes, I remember that prompt. There was another one for K/S asking for a fic that doesn't bother to forcefully explain away Spock/Uhura. It got a lot of comments pointing out to the OP that Spock/Uhura does not have to be explained away, forcefully or not, in the TOS universe.

Yeah, and they were asking for "no cliches" like Kirk asking Spock to call him Jim (wtf Spock does that anyway XP), Vulcan telepathy, and Vulcan hand kissing. I wonder why they didn't go back and delete their comment, or at least say "whoops my bad u guys"..?

Agreed with all of that.

Also, that would be a perfect thing to do in our imaginary comm. Oh gods. *continues to hide* Maybe possibly after ship wars/this summer?

That would be great! I'd been thinking about that too and thought after the ship war would be a good time...

Will you come out of the woodwork to help me host it? Because it needs to be team run by TOS and AOS :D

Funny enough, I just send you a PM.

finding out after five pages that it was AOS after all.

That is the biggest pet peeve of mine :/ I love AOS and TOS, but I seriously wish people would label their fics ~~and not that "it could be either!" bull~~. It would at least make finding TOS fanfic easier

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no hating- really just generally curious

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