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⌈ Secret Post #1175 ⌋

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Honestly, unless they're gay men themselves or are speaking to gay men they know aren't bothered by it, I don't think that matters.

This actually brings up and interesting debate. Is it okay for the group insulted themselves to use the word?

I mean, I'm Bisexual myself but I hate hearing anyone use the "F" word and never use it myself. I hate hearing other LGBT people say it because it seems like it's encouraging the words use.

It's the same way that I hate hearing people of African decent use the "N" word. If it's horribly wrong for other people to say it then shouldn't you not be able to say it yourself?

The topic sure brings up some interesting answers.

"Is it okay for the group insulted themselves to use the word?"

In my mind, no. I find it completely hypocritical for people to be somehow exempt from all repercussion when they use particularly ugly, derogatory terminology because it's specific to their group.

And being bisexual as well, much like you said, I cannot stand when the LGBT community throws the aforementioned language around. I refuse to say the infamous 'f' word (my first comment notwithstanding), both because I'm not comfortable with its meaning, and because my best friend has two gay brothers, and she gets livid when any of the guys in our group of friends casually throws out the word.

I'm rambling at work, so I apologize if none of that makes sense.

Edited 2010-03-25 00:05 (UTC)

Not necessarily hypocrisy, but empowerment. It's labeling yourself vs. being labeled by others. You can choose not to use a word yourself, you can demand of others not to use that word for you, but you don't get to tell anyone what they can or cannot call themselves. If I want to call myself a queer, a bitch, or a bastard, that's my prerogative. Doesn't mean, say, Rush Limbaugh, gets to call me the same.

I'm not trying to act like some sort of word police; I'm not demanding that people curtail their language. All I'm saying is that I refuse to use it myself, and I'm not comfortable hearing it in conversation.

I can see where you're coming from, and I can see how it can be used as a form of empowerment, however we might just have to agree to disagree, because I still think there's something... there's a double standard that I don't agree with. What's the deciding factor for why someone can use the "F" word, but another cannot? Is it because they don't hold the same perspectives? Is it because of its usage? (I have seen the LGBT community call each other f****ts in decidedly unfriendly context, just as I've heard the bigoted right use it.)

I don't know. I think because of it's history, and my own experiences with it, it's always going to leave me with a bitter taste in my mouth. *shrug*

Edited 2010-03-25 00:58 (UTC)

It's bit late here, I can't really express myself properly anymore.. ;)

What's the deciding factor for why someone can use the "F" word, but another cannot?

That's what I was trying to explain. In my opinion, you can use it if whatever term you use includes yourself. That's what I meant when I said you have a right to label yourself. If I take a derogative word someone else uses for me and reclaim it for myself, I refuse to let them have power over me. I take an isult and turn it into a privilege, which is probably the last thing someone who wants to insult me would like to see me do. Now, what you said about people in the LGBT community using the same derogative words to insult each other is a different case... it's not generally self-inclusive and has nothing to do with reclaiming.

So, as you said, let's agree to disagree, it's just that personally, I wouldn't call it a double standard, but an example of a marginalised group creating a privilege for themselves.

Haha, I feel you there. I've been on campus for far longer than I care to admit, so I apologize if I sound particularly dense. :P

Ah, I see. That does make more sense, (I thank you for taking the time to really spell it out for me). But I think I'm still wondering how one would go about reclaiming that word? I mean, it sounds like a really empowering thing, but what's to stop someone's repeated verbal abuse from affecting you? Is it just a process of taking that in, and personally throwing away the negative connotation? Is it a process of never.... I guess, never getting hurt by the word? How would one go about that? Because, personally anyways, I have a hard time mentally turning a situation around in order to never be negatively affected by it, again. It just doesn't seem as easy as saying "ok! I'm never going to feel bad when someone says this word to me, ever again!". I think I equate it with anxiety. I'm clinically anxious and I have been since I was a child, so it's mentally/physically impossible for me to just... turn off the anxiety. Connotation seems just as ingrained. Sorry. If this comes off as the raving of a mad woman, don't worry about it.

Fair enough! :)

What I can take and use in my term loses its power to hurt me, hence it felt like regaining a weapon that had been used against for me for so long.

Having said that, I'm VERY careful about using the "f" word around people who don't know me well. My intention is never to hurt people.

THIS!

bisexual as well, but kind of the opposite. I don't mind gays and pro-gays using it in an affectionate way (the way I most commonly see it in fandom is describing something sappy or effeminate about a male character that they find endearing and end up using "he's such a fag"). but I know there are LGBT people out there who hate it so I refrain from using it outside of a close close friend circle and if one of them asks me not to, I won't use it.

I used to be against it but then I realized that the majority of my friends who I saw using it...didn't use it in a rude way at all, but in an affectionate mocking way instead. it also helps to realize more of the people you see using it in fandom are LGBT than you know of.

it's a pretty sticky issue.

If it's horribly wrong for other people to say it then shouldn't you not be able to say it yourself?

The idea behind reclaiming a word is that, by changing the context in which it's used, you change its meaning as well. If you use a slur as a compliment, it will eventually become a compliment. The "n-word" is a prime example of this, since n***a is generally used positively. The problem is that, when people outside the group use the word, you can't sure that they are using it positively. A gay person doesn't necessarily buy into the bigoted bullshit surrounding the f-word (er, the other f-word; I'm trying not to offend here), but a straight person - even a well-meaning one - just might.

The way I see it, it's about reclaiming a word. None of these words are inherently offensive, it's about who they've been used by, and it what context. It's important that you, as a group or as an individual, get to choose your own label(s), and noone else gets to choose it for you. In a way, you turn an insult into a privilege, which can be an important victory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reclaimed_word

It really is touchy. I think it really just depends on how you're using it with and it should remain used privately...for example I am bi and when talking to my gay friend we often refer to each other as "faggots", but you know...in a loving way xD "You are a beautiful fag!" and so on. It's playful, I guess.

But I wouldn't use the word around a group of people I don't know (i.e. THE INTERNETS) because of the negativity.

So *shrugs* ...I guess that reply wasn't very helpful ._.;

EDITED for a typo that came off REALLY BAD DX

Edited 2010-03-25 01:27 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it's really one of those things that depends on context.

Hey, it was helpful! I like seeing everyone's different opinions on this :)

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