[ SECRET POST #1216 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1216 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 15 pages, 351 secrets from Secret Submission Post #174.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - empty comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[prettyshiny.livejournal.com]

I think het fics are gender-biased and entrenched in antiquated relationship roles that society has conditioned many of us to expect. By exploring slash relationships, we have an opportunity to take women out of the kitchen and give male characters the chance to decide whether or not they want to continue being breadwinners and big, strong defenders. In addition, when the slashers are straight or gay, it allows the readers/writers to explore and express aspects of their sexualities (or lack thereof) that might otherwise never have an opportunity to see the light.

Yeah. That's super exploitative.

If, however, you're talking about a use of the GLBT culture for purely sexual reasons without consideration of context or reality, then I'm down for a conversation.

[(Anonymous)]

By exploring slash relationships, we have an opportunity to take women out of the kitchen and give male characters the chance to decide whether or not they want to continue being breadwinners and big, strong defenders.

...you seem to be saying that men and women can't (or shouldn't) choose to do these things even if they know alternative options, and that's problematic to me.

[prettyshiny.livejournal.com]

No, I'm saying that by removing traditional gender role constraints, it's easier to do these things. When no one specific person is "the man" or "the woman" (or, conversely, the top or bottom) in a relationship, then neither one is forced to take on a role that he/she/ze is not wholly comfortable with. And I'm saying that people absolutely should take any opportunity to step outside of the cookie-cutter rolls we're handed, all the better for self exploration, understanding and growth.

[xmarie08.livejournal.com]

well said!

[sanae.livejournal.com]

Your judgments about het are as bad as OP's judgments about slash, imo.

[prettyshiny.livejournal.com]

Perhaps you're right. And I certainly could have launched into it better. But I do stand by my assertion of gender-bias and forced roles, though without the OP's use of crying babies and handcuffs.

Of course, I'll also freely admit that I do read het original fic. I think there's nothing wrong with reading or writing it, so long as you (generic you) understand that not all people and relationships have to fit into the same set of boxes, no matter what a traditionally conformist society would like us to think.

the anon who replied to the comment earlier

[(Anonymous)]

This is EXACTLY what I was trying to get at, thank you.

[ceredwensirius.livejournal.com]

I think het fics are gender-biased and entrenched in antiquated relationship roles that society has conditioned many of us to expect. By exploring slash relationships, we have an opportunity to take women out of the kitchen and give male characters the chance to decide whether or not they want to continue being breadwinners and big, strong defenders.

But... not everyone wants to write these brave stories. I've written both het and slash and these are not my reasons for writing. Can't it simply be a creative outlet for some people and leave the judgments and assumptions at the door? When I write/read het I prefer a strong female character but at the end of the day, characterization and a good plot are far more important to me.

I think you have an excellent point here, but I am uncomfortable with the language in regards to judging what someone does with their story (unless I am misunderstanding). I think people should feel free to write what they want, and if that involves a courageous a socially progressive story then great! but I don't think they should be discouraged from writing more traditional roles if that is what they want.

For the record, what I want is simply to play with a favorite character and nothing more. I don't really care if he is gay or straight.

[prettyshiny.livejournal.com]

Well, I was mostly addressing the exploitative accusation in my initial comment, but when I write, I do so to tell a story. Social commentary and gender roles aren't my primary concerns when I sit down to write. I mean, my last slash fan fiction that I finished was about a demon and a psychic, and the book I just had published was about two guys that make a bet on business and sex. Not exactly high brow stuff, but it was fun to write.

From a creative point of view, I get to play with my characters and put them in all kinds of new situations. From a meta perspective, that's twisting roles and expectations, thanks to the convenient shield of fiction and the shake up of gender balance. But from any angle, it's slash fandom, and we do fandom because it interests us, pleases us, makes us think, helps us create, gives us community. I suppose just got a little cranky seeing yet another troll attacking it (us), latched onto the sociological, and left out the rest.

[ceredwensirius.livejournal.com]

Ah, I get you.

From a creative point of view, I get to play with my characters and put them in all kinds of new situations.

This is what I enjoy. I like to think about what my fave guy would do in this situation or that situation, be it with a girl/guy or unpaired.

the book I just had published

Congratulations!

[(Anonymous)]

the book I just had published was about two guys that make a bet on business and sex

PLEASE TELL ME MORE

[hologrphcbuddha.livejournal.com]

While this comment makes sense theoretically, in practice, I find that this isn't always the case. The problem I have with bad slash fics* is that they don't challenge gender roles and stereotypes at all aside from teh ghey. They usually have one male as the dominant alpha male and another as a feminized "beta" male who tends to respond and react to the relationship in stereotypically feminine ways. I'm not sure if this is a dynamic that originates in yaoi, since everything I know about yaoi I learned from F!S and Fandom Wank, but I've seen it in action too many times for comfort. I'm sure good slash fics do just what you say, but what can I say, I have a tendency to play devil's advocate (even to points I generally agree with).

tl;dr I don't think one can really generalize het or slash fics in the way this statement does, because I know of a lot of het fics that do just what this statement is attributing to slash fics, and a lot of slash fics that do what this statement is attributing to het fics. And for the record, I think the secretmaker is troll and that exploitativeness (is that a word? Eh, it is now) is more dependent on the content of the fic itself than it's being het or slash.

*I'm not saying all slash fics are bad, just that a lot of them are, but a lot of fanfic in general is bad and thus this statement is not meant as a slight against slash fics