Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2010-05-11 08:40 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2010-05-11 08:40 pm
[ SECRET POST #1225 ]
⌈ Secret Post #1225 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: ?? pages, ??? secrets from Secret Submission Post #175.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: 101, 102, 111, 115, 131, 135, 143, 146, 147, 150
As for his "Inner beauty" he was Howard Hughes-esque -- firing anyone who didn't totally agree with him, no matter how self-destructive his wants were, living outside his means, not because he didn't have much of an income, but rather because he never, ever set any limits on himself. He was not particularly nice to anyone. He was the ultimate spoiled selfish brat.
And that's not getting into his creepiness with kids and bizarre parenting.
I really don't get that you see "beauty" in him. He was an awful person, who surrounded himself with people who cared only about being paid, drove away anyone who cared, and reaped the consequences in spades.
Re: 101, 102, 111, 115, 131, 135, 143, 146, 147, 150
My mother has lupus, which he also had along with vitiligo, so I'm gonna call Bull. She doesn't have a version that is life-threatening (immediately anyway), and she takes her meds, but right now, she looks like she has two black eyes, simply from stress. If I was a performer, then I'd do something to even out my skin tone, because looks is part of how money is made. I'm pretty sure he was right in that people would be less disgusted to think he wanted to be white, than to think he had skin problems. I didn't like the plastic surgery, but that's mostly he nose, so. Also, in the pictures I've seen recently, he looks quite healthy, which is all I require for beauty.
Since you know everyone he's met, I'm sure you can make that blanket statement on how nice he was. Or, you know, not. As far as firing people, when it came to artistic directions, he was a genius. If they thought he was making a bad artistic decision, then chances are they were wrong. When it comes to business or personal motivations, he was fucked up, which is generally what child stardom will do for you. An honest look at the rest of his family will tell you they're all fucked up, with a lot less money (except for the oldest sister, and that's mostly because she wasn't really in show business until she was older). I am going to blame 40% of that on the father. And yeah, he was so spoiled, he somehow got in the guinness book of world records for how much money he's given to charity. Those selfish brats, always thinking of themselves.
I give him mad props as an artist, for wanting to learn the business when he was young, and for generally giving his fans what they wanted. Few child artists do that. I don't personally think he drove away everyone who cared, because when you're a star, the only people who are probably going to truly care are your family. I've got no evidence that he drove them away, considering he worked on their records, and they on his a ton and they were thinking of a reality show.
I won't deny the bad business decision making. But not listening to people who don't agree with you, and not setting limits on yourself don't make you an awful person. Unless you think most people are awful, but with a lot less money.
Most of all though: YOU DON'T KNOW HIM, so making personal judgments and then insulting other people who make different judgments, does not reflect well, at the very least, on you self-awareness. I do find that there is a correlation between a lack of self-awareness and awfulness, though.
Re: 101, 102, 111, 115, 131, 135, 143, 146, 147, 150
1) Your mom isn't Michael Jackson
2) Not listening to anyone other than yourself and doing whatever the hell you want to regardless of the consequences does indeed makes you a spoiled brat even if you don't have money.
Re: 101, 102, 111, 115, 131, 135, 143, 146, 147, 150
2)I don't agree with your definition of spoiled brat at all, nor do I think you were involved in his personal life enough to know how he made decisions. Your definition encompasses a lot of people, including I would say most Americans who bought a house they couldn't pay for, and all of those Greeks who decided they didn't want to pay taxes. I wouldn't call them spoiled brats. The word specifically has to do with being unable to accept the word no because people saying no is unfamiliar. Considering his childhood, that appellation is incorrect.
Re: 101, 102, 111, 115, 131, 135, 143, 146, 147, 150
2) I wondered when you'd get around to suggesting his childhood excuses his behavior. Spoiling can happen at any age. It's caused by a lack of discipline and reasonable consistantly enforced rules. Punishment and discipline aren't the same thing. As a child he may have been abused, but that doesn't give him the right, as an adult, to do whatever the hell he wants. No he as an adult man should not be having sleepovers with underaged boys. Everyone in that household knew he shouldn't. He chose to ignore advice and do it anyway. He got rid of doctors who told him what he didn't want to hear, and got himself a doctor who would allow him to abuse drugs. He got rid of the plastic surgeons that said "no" to the surgeries that ultimately destroyed his looks. He showed absolutely no financial restraint. He attempted to buy John Merirks remains and was thwarted because he damn well had no reason for having them.
Leave the Greeks and homeowners out of this. The homeowners wasn't caused by individual overreaching, but rather a pervasive flaw with the entire system that baffled even economists and trapped even savvy homeowners. The greek government didn't pursue tax cheats and the problem mushroomed. There's plenty of blame to be had there, but it wasn't a matter of individual discipline.
Re: 101, 102, 111, 115, 131, 135, 143, 146, 147, 150
2)Don't derail the argument with assumptions. I never said his childhood excused his behavior. I said that spoiled brat is not the correct term, because of his childhood. You could've have used another more appropriate term. You didn't. I don't think spoiling can happen at any age, since neurologically that's not how decision making works. Nor do I think thinking you know better than everyone is spoiled behavior. I think it's superior behavior, but not spoiled. You could just as easily say he was single-minded. According to your definition on spoiled, those people were spoiled: they didn't listen to good advice, and refused to consider the consequences. That's your def, not mine. Yes, there is plenty of blame, especially on the economic and political systems that fatally augmented the collective lack of individual discipline. If you pay your taxes, which is pretty much the only way the government makes money, there is no problem to mushroom. If you were denied a mortgage before, and nothing's changed, know that the reason you were denied before was that people thought you couldn't pay for the house, and be a little suspicious of why someone is giving you a house now, when prices have risen. Just because the government and banks played enablers, doesn't mean the problem didn't have a lot to do with people ignoring the consequences of their decisions.
Frankly, we can agree to disagree on what makes someone spoiled. I think you're wrong, you think I'm wrong, whatever. My point still remains that you seem to think your opinion is fact. You question the mental state of someone who also has an opinion, and think this is a rational response. Insist that it's a rational response, although it's quite irrational. This makes you unaware of your self, if not other things.
Re: 101, 102, 111, 115, 131, 135, 143, 146, 147, 150
Can I fangirl you for putting that far more eloquently than I could have?
Re: 101, 102, 111, 115, 131, 135, 143, 146, 147, 150