fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1302 ]

[ SECRET POST #1302 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1302 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 11 pages, 255 secrets from Secret Submission Post #186.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 3 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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But katara is not exactly mature herself. Romantically not terribly mature. And she is very temperamental, very my way or the highway, very stubborn, and she could certainly hit below the belt when she wanted to verbally. There were several instances were Aang was actually very mature, even more so than his older counterparts.

The age thing doesn't mean jack to me. It's how they treat each other. And if you think the two year age thing is weird, I think the "falling for a guy who helped his sister kill her best friend" thing is weird. Also zuko was pretty romantically inept at his age (considering being older supposedly makes him more romantically wise and mature) Even aang was more confident in himself and interested in girls.

I think the "falling for a guy who helped his sister kill her best friend" thing is weird.

Whoa whoa, I might be just dense from being sick, but what... situation is this?

I think they're talking about when Azula lightninged Aang.

oh OH! derp. I didn't think of that, since I was thinking of who actually died in the series ~~and stayed dead.~~

Lol...he didn't stay dead, but bringing him back to life and then hovering over Aang's comatose self probably still wasn't one of the better times in Katara's life.

You got it, I think. I also think that this is the same anon who tl;dr'd me over a comment from a couple days ago railing against Zutara for the exact same reason. Do the words "redemption" and "forgiveness" have no meaning to them, I wonder? :T

Honey, I forgave the guy that held me up a few years ago and am glad to know he works with some community service organization. Doesn't mean I want to date him.

And it is a valid point. You all get all squicked over the ages. Well a girl falling for a dude who hunted her and her loved ones, hurt her and her loved ones, betrayed her, helped his sister kill her best friend is kind of squicky.

And while I'm not sure who you are speaking of, there are a lot of people who find this to be a big issue with Zutara. Especially considering the reasons you all rip Kataang apart for.

Jeez, it feels like you're trying to guilt me into not liking my ship like some fringe Zutarians like to try and guilt Kataangers into not liking theirs. :|

Look, I get it, you've been through shit with someone and would never want to date him and that's very likely colored how you ship (experiences definitely shape how others ship characters, as I've seen time and again, believe me). Hell, by your logic, she should've have never trusted him to take Aang to the Sun Warriors ruins' to help with their firebending, or help Sokka with their "hunting trip" (as they'd claimed), or to go with her in hunting the Southern Raiders BECAUSE of their horrible, horrible past (and all prior to her forgiving Zuko, might I add!). Not to mention even when he was still technically chasing them in season 2, SHE offered to help help Iroh after Azula hit him with lightning.

Even then, like ignix said below, Katara's anger/hate towards Zuko was more in the realm of her whole "Face of the enemy" thing than the chasing after of Aang. Yes, him chasing Aang was also a reason in the spiel under Ba Sing Se, but her anger at the beginning of TSR? More of "the Fire Nation took my mother away from me". Methinks there was an intentional emphasis there.

I won't deny that Zuko's past transgressions toward the gaang are a reason some people don't like Zutara and that's fine. I don't like Kataang for various reasons (some of which involving my own experiences) and I would like to think that's fine, too. What's so wrong with someone seeing the good in someone else instead of focusing on the shit they've done that they've BOTH clearly moved past? :/

Bleh, I'm having a weird day. My point was that there is different squick. All week I've seen a ton of stuff against kataang and yet there are some big issues with zutara that are swept aside because it is zutara.

I have no issue with liking zutara. Hell i even like it in au. But that is just one issue I have never understood how people just sweep it aside. It was a big deal in the series and one for her.

And while he was forgiven and he did redeem himself, I don't think her holding and sobbing over a lifeless Aang, caring for his comatose self for weeks, and knowing the reason she is free is because of Iroh sacrificing himself would be just some "shit.".

Like what you want, no one is stopping you.

Not anon, but it seems to me Katara's big thing with Zuko was that it was more of a "grrrr Fire Nation ruined my life and you happen to be the eldest prince" sort of thing.

Also, I shipped Zutara hard for a while, but it always bothered me how Katara was so willing to fall for or trust Jet and Zuko and then was horribly surprised/hurt when they did an about-face. But that's irrelevant.

I wouldn't use that as ammo in a "why I don't think Zutara would work" argument though, all things considered. She got along with him well enough at certain points, especially after the whole ~revenge~ episode. It still is a little weird, imo, but I'm not going to tl;dr about it since their relationship was obviously resolved in the end.

Mm, I agree with that. That's always how I saw it. Hell, didn't she herself say in her own terms that Zuko was the face of the enemy that took her mother away? Which is pretty much why she didn't like Zuko from the beginning. Damn near EVERYONE in the Fire Nation army wanted to get Aang, honestly. :/

See, that's a good reason to say "this is why I don't think Zutara would work." It was somewhat resolved, but that's just how she ended up reacting.

Heck, even then, Katara later forgave them both; Jet before he died and Zuko after he helped her in TSR. And I still have this hunch that had Jet not died, we would've had a deeper relationship between the two similar to how she and Zuko eventually bonded (though how deep the bond would've been/is is up to interpretation).

Yes this. This exactly.

And yeah, their relationship was resolved, which is why it's hard for me to form a response to it because of said resolution. Ah well. Different people have different experiences and as such have different reactions to different media and AtLA is no different.

I feel the same way. It's a hard subject to bring up because it was resolved, but there's still the past they had. I ended up seeing them as siblings more than anything else, but I'm open to most 'ships in ATLA, be they platonic or romantic, so w/e.

Eh, for the most part Aang was the immature one, though. Sure, Katara had a few moments, but for some of them Aang was right along there with her. The show made a very big point about how Katara was the mom, she was the one that was cautious about getting into a relationship (which I think says a lot for her maturity, especially at that age), she was the mature one.

And I think, while Aang was "more confident in himself" re: girls, this ended in some questionable treatment of Katara. Like, the kiss in EIP reeeally grates on me for that reason. He kisses her in Day of the Black Son -> she looks shaken and worried, then apparently they don't talk about it (which just sounds like it would be super awkward in real life), then he decides to kiss her again, she tells him that it's not such a good idea, and he has a mini-episode. I just thought that went a long way to show the discrepancy between them, maturity-wise.

You know, Aang might have done a lot of amazing things in his life, but relationships are an entirely different beast from like, saving the world.

Also, I don't really see where Zuko being bad at relationships comes into play. He does pretty well on that date he goes on in Ba Sing Se (come on, that firebending trick was pretty smooth), and then in The Beach he gets all huffy with Mai, but I think everyone was just being really wonky in that episode.

Also, for the record, I'm pretty sure by the end of the series Katara was cool with Zuko, so the whole, "you know, you were kinda a dick, back in the day," thing was a moot point. Plus he did join the Avatar, teach him to firebend, and also save Katara from being lightninged out the wazoo. So, you know, there's that.

Oh and I don't disagree with the fact Aang had moments where he was immature. Lord, there were times I wanted to slap him. But I don't think he was on unequal footing with Katara.

And being cool with someone is certainly a long way from trusting someone with your heart and wanting romance. And my point which could have been explained better, my bad long day, is that the age thing is consistently brought up as a point of squick, but there are things that are just as squicky to some people. Certain things are awful, but others overlooked.

Eh, the I'm excited over the series and irritated it took only a day before it hit fandom_wank. I was kind of hoping to squee over the new series without shipping crap focused on ripping pairings apart.

My apologies.

Hey, don't worry about it, I totally get that. And here's some squee, since I haven't really gotten to either: I'M SO EXCITED ABOUT THE NEW SERIES! It sounds like it's going to be ridiculously cool, and how in love am I with the idea of a steam-city, and a girl main character avatar? Answer: Very much in love! I can't wait!

And yeah, that is a good point about the different types of squickiness, and one that I honestly haven't really considered, just because I generally assume a position of post-series Zutara, and then make up ideas in my head about how it would work. I definitely can't see any sort of during-series Zutara. My position of Zutara is pretty much, I see potential for something cool, but I don't think they were getting it on or anything, nor would they anytime soon, if it would ever happen (which obviously it never would, but...you know...this is getting really ramble-y).

YAY NEW SERIES!!!

My biggest issue is that one scene. If Zuko had not joined Azula, Zutara would sit better. It just really bugs me that there should be no consequences for that. Everything gets resolved and rainbows fly. And Aang dying or almost dying is a huge moment for Katara. She is not going to forget it.

Again rambley...lol. I just have yet to have someone explain how not to be squicky over that issue.

See, I think that Zuko does a pretty good job earning his redemption. He goes on a magical ~~love~~ adventure with Aang, and teaches him to Firebend. He helps save Katara and Sokka's dad. He tries to help Katara deal with the guy that killed her mom. Then he goes to take down Azula, and ends up getting lightninged in order to save Katara.

Not to mention that he knows that what he did before was wrong, apologizes, genuinely feels bad about and then tries to make amends to everyone...I think he does more than enough so that by the end of the series Katara would definitely accept him into the group, and then perhaps, down the line (had Kataang not happened), I could see a romance possibly happening.

Katara clearly has issues relating to trust (she seems very eager to trust people, but then crushed when they might not be worth that trust), but I feel that by the end of the series Zuko definitely earned her trust.

Besides, almost dying would probably be a hard thing for Aang to get over, but by the end we see him and Zuko ~~getting married~~ together and clearly close friends. The Firelord and the Avatar...together again...awwww. <3

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[ SECRET POST #1302 ]

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