[ SECRET POST #1374 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1374 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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148. [SPOILERS for Persona 4]



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150. [TRIGGER WARNING for non-con/incest]



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151. [TRIGGER WARNING for non-con/dub-con]



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152. [TRIGGER WARNING for lolicon]



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153. [TRIGGER WARNING for self-harm]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #196.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Lol but internet feminists go on and on about how they can't do any real life activism. BECUZ OF MY SOSHUL ANXIETY!! HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST I ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING, YOU ABLEIST

[(Anonymous)]

Oh so you belong to the "BUT INTERNET IS NOT THE REAL WORLD YOU GUYS" school of thought. So all the people writing fic and posting secrets and arguing about them aren't real people? Activism on the internet is still activism. It affects real people with real lives and how they think and behave in their interactions with other people. Internet activism is still valid and actual activism.

captcha: curred femmods

[(Anonymous)]

lol

Dogpiling a sixteen-year-old's Doctor Who fnfiction because of its 'problematic' content doesn't do shit for anyone irl, and don't even pretend it does.

Re: captcha: curred femmods

[birdboy2000.livejournal.com]

Though really, the problem is the dogpiling. If fandom feminists were reasonable individuals and not assholes, if they targeted source material and didn't extend it to targeting fanbases, I'm sure they could get a lot done.

Instead they cry "tone argument" when anyone suggests they're acting trollish and out of line - and they act trollish and out of line on a regular basis.

Re: captcha: curred femmods

[(Anonymous)]

TONE ARGUMENT!!

Don't you know, they don't have to be nice to you because they're the oppressed ones? It doesn't matter if it makes more sense to be civil, or it would be more effective to be civil, they don't have to be it so they won't and you better listen anyway. Or else you're a horrible, horrible, terrible person that deserves to die in a fire.

Now shut up and take my femcock, bitch.

Re: captcha: curred femmods

[(Anonymous)]

The "tone argument" is valid to an extent, but since it has been used as a blank check to abuse and harass people (online anyway), it has become a joke. I am a feminist and I give the hard side-eye to ANYONE who cries "TONE ARGUMENT" these days.

Re: captcha: curred femmods

[(Anonymous)]

Same here. No, I do not believe that women should be quiet and docile. No, I do not believe that people shouldn't bring up issues.

But I do believe in a general code of conduct for people as a whole, and that while it may take rage and yelling to get someone to listen, there's no reason to use it except as a last resort. And if that still doesn't work, sometimes there are battles that just can't be won; backing down from arguing with some idiot on the internet that is clearly not going to go anywhere is not going to set the feminist movement back ffs.

I see so many people going in raaaaging and wanting to "hurt the offender back" and it's like, why is this the accepted, encouraged, default response now?

Re: captcha: curred femmods

[bloodrivendream.livejournal.com]

The first time I read the line "Go Die In A Fire" (and it was in a fandom feminist context) it through me right off. I am not sure to what extent it was hyperbole...

I think you captured a common sentiment quite well.

[karel]

Ngl, if suddenly a bunch of people start dogpiling my comment, calling names and shit, I will delete said comment, take my ban happily (because it's apparently a bannable offense to not "stand there and be wrong in your wrongness" and let the whole comm tell you so), and never come back. It puts the kibosh on my listening real fast if you sit there and get abusive.

*raises hand*

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, this is the first time I've seen this particular expression..., so enlighten me - what exactly is the "tone argument"?

in b4 GTFO AND EDUCATE YOURSELF YOU PRIVILEGED TROLL

Re: *raises hand*

[(Anonymous)]

"More people would listen if you weren't so angry about it."

Re: *raises hand*

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks.

Re: *raises hand*

[(Anonymous)]

Except now it's become thrown around when people say

"I don't want to talk to you anymore because you're screaming crazy rage and abuse at me."

HDU

Re: *raises hand*

[(Anonymous)]

lol, and the point all the ones that cry TONE ARGUMENT! DERAILING! don't understand is that by the time someone brings up the fact that they're being unnecessarily vicious, they've pretty much already stopped listening because of the person's tone.

and therefore crying tone argument does nothing anyways

Re: *raises hand*

[(Anonymous)]

When used properly, the tone argument describes a scenario where A tells B that they're behaving in a racist/sexist/homophobic manner. B gets upset and lashes out at A, saying that they would have listened to A's views, but they were being too mean. Often C will judge A more harshly than B: A was courteous and respectful, while B called A a cunt. Since A is a woman/POC/queer, they're held to higher standards than B.

However, this only works when A is behaving properly. Sometimes, A will start calling names, cursing, arguing in bad faith, and think that B should have listened to them anyway.

Re: *raises hand*

[(Anonymous)]

In 90% of internet arguments about -isms, A will start calling names, cursing, arguing in bad faith, and think that B should have listened to them anyway.

Fixed that for you.

Re: *raises hand*

[(Anonymous)]

It's strange, but even though I've started to roll my eyes every time I see the words 'tone argument' I still can't take anyone who think it's always (or almost always) misused seriously.

Re: *raises hand*

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

You ever have a parent or other older, wiser family member tell you "you'll get more flies with honey than with vinegar" or a variation on that? There you go.

(Mom's common sense. WHAT KNOW YOU, IT DOES WORK IN THE REAL WORLD FROM TIME TO TIME. LOL.)

Re: *raises hand*

[(Anonymous)]

But that's not actually true. Google it for details of experiments with flies, honey and vinegar.

'Common sense' is not always correct.

wait, aren't you...

[(Anonymous)]

the WEEABOO HATE IS REAL guy?

Re: wait, aren't you...

[(Anonymous)]

And what the fuck does this have to do with this discussion? No wonder birdboy thinks you guys are trolls.

[eleusis-walks.livejournal.com]

but do they really? this is a weird straw man. all the feminists i know who discuss issues with me about fandom are also active politically irl.

[(Anonymous)]

From what I can tell, they're talking about ontd_f, which every single feminist in fandom is forced to join.

Not every feminist in fandom I know is politically active, but as a group, they're more politically active than the feminists I know irl.

[eleusis-walks.livejournal.com]

I mean I am a member of ontd_f because sometimes discussion there is interesting but I think it is kind of wanky and ridiculous a lot of the time. The idea that 'fandom feminism' is some monolithic entity is makin me lol.

Not every feminist in fandom I know is politically active, but as a group, they're more politically active than the feminists I know irl.

ITA.

[xenoglossy]

Yeah, I've never seen anyone make that argument, which would be surprising if it's really as widespread as the anon implies.