[ SECRET POST #1464 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1464 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 108 secrets from Secret Submission Post #209.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[thekeres.livejournal.com]

True, they aren't perfect friends to each other. Keep in mind, Mercedes isn't always the amazing caring friend either. Her trying to force Kurt into accepting some type of religion when it was quite clear he was not interested comes to mind.

[shinyhappypanic.livejournal.com]

hm, I feel like she wasn't trying to force him into religion, but praying for him and bringing him to church was the only way she could think of to show she truly cared.

but maybe I'm remembering it wrong; I only watched that episode once

[thekeres.livejournal.com]

She wasn't trying to convert him or anything. I haven't seen the episode in a while, but I remember her bringing the whole Glee club to pray at the Hospital when he did not want any of them to pray for him. Just the way Mercedes acted like Kurt was wrong for not wanting prayers stuck with me. :/

[math-camel.livejournal.com]

I remember that, but I remember being more annoyed that Kurt didn't take his father's POV into account. This really buggs me actually because it's hinted earlier in the episode and confirmed later in the season that he has some religious beliefs that Kurt didn't respect. He should know if his dad would be down with prayers from well wishers and the fact that he didn't even think about that is pretty foul in my opinion. I feel like I'm the only one it bothers too.

[thekeres.livejournal.com]

That I was unaware of. That does put Kurt in a worse light, but doesn't excuse Mercedes. For all she knew, none of the Hummels cared for prayer. I need to re-watch this episode.

[math-camel.livejournal.com]

To me it puts them on an even keel, she might not have been totally understanding and respectful of Kurt but he wasn't of his father. If anything Kurt was worse because he knew his dad much better then M knew him, plus he'd had his whole life to learn to relate to his dad.

I don't think they ever throw out a denomination for Mr. H, but considering his religiously themed speech at the beginning of the episode and the fact that he got married in a church even though he was trying to save money and he apparently didn't have anyone to invite. (Also, Kurt could have had his little decorating explosion on the reception, so I don't count that as a reason).

Everyone goes on about how it's ALL ABOUT KURT'S FEELINGS but if my significant other (who has a different religious tradition than I) tossed the priest out of the room and spent money on an acupuncturist (which wouldn't help a coma anyway. Just because something is foreign doesn't mean it is magical) there would be a reckoning. Just tossing it out there. Maybe it's different if it's your kid and you've gotten used to him being a jerk.

[thekeres.livejournal.com]

I agree that Kurt and Mercedes have been equally insensitive to each other and that Kurt should have taken his father's feelings into consideration. That being said I can completely understand where Kurt's coming from and to be honest were I in that position I'd react the same way.

Oh, I can't agree that marrying in a church presupposes enough piety to assume on that basis alone that prayer is actively desired. If I'm wrong my parents are in for a big surprise. ;)

[math-camel.livejournal.com]

If it were just that I'd agree, but given the two other point's I mentioned (his speech at the beginning of the episode) and the desired slap-dash nature of their wedding I'm going to have to disagree. I know religious folks who've gotten married at the court office (and then had their priest say a few words at their weekly service). Obviously the church and priest were important to them. (The show could just have easily had the signing and dancing on the court house steps and the speeches at the reception. It would have been waaaaay more appropriate there anyway)

There's also a gap between actively desiring prayer and being glad you're son tossed you're wife-to-be and step-son-to-be out on their ass. There's even a pretty big gap between actively desiring prayer and wanting no one to pray for you or near EVER. I don't know many people who ask for prayers for themselves but I've yet to meet someone who'd tell you off for offering them.

I can accept that not many others see this as I do, but it really bugs me.

[thekeres.livejournal.com]

I can't comment on the speech seeing as I don't remember it, but I don't doubt that Burt is religious in some way.

I completely forgot Carole and Finn were there! Bad Kurt. Kurt had every right to ask for alone time with his father, but Carole and Finn had the exact same right.

Not saying that Kurt is right in asking his friends to not pray for Burt at all, but he should be able to tell them not to do it in the hospital room.

I love knowing other viewpoints, it makes me think about why I've taken my own.

[dynus.livejournal.com]

It's quite possible that Kurt was unaware of Burt's religious beliefs. I figure that when Burt realized that Kurt was gay he decided not to go to church anymore in order to spare his son from possible gay-bashing sermons, and probably tried to keep as neutral as possible on the subject when Kurt started asking questions. Which could have left Kurt with the impression that his father wasn't all that religious, as it's probably not a subject that was brought up all that much and we're given the impression that until "Preggers" they weren't that close. Or at least not communicating very well.

Pure speculation on my part (because this is Glee and all we can is speculate about things because half the time it doesn't make sense), basing it on what one of my friends' parents did when they they realized he was gay at age three.

And maybe this is callous of me, but in "Grilled Cheesus" it was Kurt who needed comforting, not Burt due him to being in a coma. And the prayer circle wasn't comforting him at all, only upsetting him. He did admit at the end of the episode that he should have let them, as they were being nice, but surely we cut the upset teenager some slack for being angry with his friends disregarding his beliefs.

Not that I'm saying they shouldn't have prayed, but holding a vigil behind his back was not the way to go.

[math-camel.livejournal.com]

I really can't believe that. You don't live with someone for 16 years and not notice something like that. At least not if you've ever paid any attention to them. You don't have to go to church to have faith and all that. Again, he starts the episode with a pseudo-religious (or at least spiritual) speech, and he gets married in a church. The fact is he didn't even think about it. His dad's opinions/thoughts/beliefs wasn't even on his radar of stuff to care about.

They had the prayer circle when he wasn't there so it was all about Mr. H and his future wife. The world doesn't revolve around Kurt, and I'm not sure the show knows that.

Think about it, had Mr. H died would Kurt have let a priest oversee the funeral? In my religion that kind of stuff is kind of a big deal, and it's something you're relatives should at least look into before making decisions for you. Did Mr. H have a living will? Did he have his own wishes about living on life support? Would Kurt have thought about those? It matters.

Plus acupuncture for a coma. I'm sorry, but you loose the "logical and scientific" position.

[dynus.livejournal.com]

*shrug* Maybe, maybe not. I didn't know my mother practiced Wicca since before I was born until I was seventeen, that doesn't mean I never paid any attention to her. It was just something she kept private, because to her it was private.

You're right it doesn't revolve around Kurt. And maybe the prayer circle did help Carole and Finn, Burt's future wife and step son. But it didn't help Kurt and we didn't see any of his friends try to comfort him in a way that didn't involve religion, which he obviously wasn't comfortable with. Which is just as bad as Kurt ignoring his father's views really. Hell, we don't even know what Kurt was doing when he wasn't at school or at the hospital.

Had Burt died I would imagine someone else in the family would have taken over, a grandparent, a aunt or uncle, or something, because Kurt's a minor and would have next to no power to decide those things. Had Kurt been eighteen, yes those are things to ask, and I'm sure if Burt left anything Kurt would have followed it. Kurt tends to bend over backwards for his father with the exception of that episode's 'not wanting to go to dinner', but who hasn't had that discussion with their parents.

I have to ask why you feel that way about acupuncture. Acupuncture is very logical and scientific. Acupuncturists put a lot of study into their practice, they just don't stick needles into random places. Sorry if I'm on a soap box here, but I have a friend who's an acupuncturist and have learned a lot about it second hand and have seen it work.

[math-camel.livejournal.com]

But that was before you were born which is perhaps different than how she felt at the moment, and I would have to doubt that she'd give you lectures on what "sacred" means at the drop of the hat.

Acupuncture has been shown, in peer reviewed studies, to help with lower back pain. However, people also claim it cures cancer, pms, injuries, and apparently comas. As I've come to understand it's mostly based on ancient Chinese practices. Which is cool, unless you remember how much the ancient Chinese also dig mercury for mortality, rhino horns for infertility, and bear bile for just about everything else. It's like massages in my view, they hopefully feel good and they might help that cramp but if you're using it in a life or death situation you're doing it wrong. And by "it" I mean decision making.

(Also: http://whatstheharm.net/acupuncture.html so some people really do believe this and it hurts them.)

At least prayer's free, it'll do about as much good in this situation.

[dynus.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm not saying that it does. It's stupid to even think it can cure any of those things. It does however, help make those things and others (help fertility, boost energy and metabolism in particular) easier to deal with, except cancer and comas as I'm pretty sure that part was just Glee being Glee. And just because it was invented by the Ancient Chinese doesn't mean it hasn't evolved since. You're right, it shouldn't be used for life or death things. But for everyday pains, yes it can.

[math-camel.livejournal.com]

Phew. You can never be to sure, this is the internet after all :) It was just odd that Kurt gives this little speech about only believing in things you can prove and then he brings in, not some experimental medicine or specialist doctor, but an old therapy that has no application to his current malady. And what sort of acupuncturist would agree to treat someone for their coma? Maybe if he specified that he wanted his dad to be relaxed... but then he starts yelling and throws out his girlfriend. It just didn't make any sense.

[dynus.livejournal.com]

*nodnod* Understood.

An acupuncturist who needs money? I don't know. Glee's never been a good show, an entertaining show yes, but not a good show.

I look at it as Kurt being a teenager in a lousy situation, not coping well. I like to think at the end of the episode everyone apologized to each other for the yelling and general not listening to each other.

[thekeres.livejournal.com]

Looking back at how I acted in high school, I think it's more than a possibility that Kurt was unaware of his father's beliefs. Lord knows I was surprised when my mother told me she still believed in God, etc. Friends have done the same, I just assume it was because I had never expressed any beliefs myself. This most like happened with Kurt as well, no one discussed their religion with Kurt because it was never something he was interested in.

And giant yes, even if the Hummels were very religious and everyone knew, his friends had absolutely no right to hold a prayer circle in the hospital when explicitly told not to. Had they done it in a church or one of their own homes I would not side with Kurt, but really. The kid just wants to be alone with his father. :/

[math-camel.livejournal.com]

I think that's the ultimate split in our thinking. I think that's kinda rude, but I think it's unimaginably awful not to respect someone's religious wishes when they're incompatibly, and that's just what Kurt did. I feel like his keeping his father away from whatever religious needs he might have is much worse than having someone to be near a religious expression. Maybe it's just because my religion has certain rites for when you die and certain things for when you're in the hospital and it's a slight source of anxiety that I could die and end up a Jane Doe and not receive these rites. I already use my cell phone like dogs tags, but I'd like to think my friends and loved ones would look into it.

No I don't think it was a good move on their part, but I disagree that it's Kurt decision to make and I feel like the future Mrs. H (I refer to her this way because I can't remember her name, or how to spell his) would have discussed this with Mr. H at some point. A) that's why living wills are important. B) this is why I feel so uncomfortable with this episode because NO ONE CARES ABOUT MR. H AND HIS WISHES. It's stuck in my metaphorical craw.

[thekeres.livejournal.com]

I come from a very non-religious family. We all have varying degrees of faith, but none as deep as yours. I'm guessing this is where the difference of opinion stems from.

As I said above, I completely forgot Carole, the bride-to-be, was around in this episode. She should have taken over care, if not because she would be more aware of Burt's wishes then at least because you really shouldn't let a distressed teenager make the decisions.

[math-camel.livejournal.com]

It just boils down to how I dislike the use of Kurt's character in this season. By any logic another relative *should* have come down to take care of Kurt, or at least get in touch. But the plot has to focus on Kurt, no matter how contrived or illogical and it bothers me. I think it was really just that the writer's didn't care about Mr. H., so they didn't even think to treat him as a character with his own thoughts and motivations but rather as a prop for Kurt to cry over which ultimately ruins the episode for me. (Not that there weren't other, possibly bigger, issues but there was a Billy Joel song! Do you know how long I've waited for a Billy Joel song? I'll probably never get another one!)

(To be fair I don't know if Mr. H and Carole were officially engaged or what by that point but it is clear they were heavily involved. Their relationship is pretty much kept from us until it impacts Kurt or Finn which is ok I guess)

[dynus.livejournal.com]

Same here. Like I told math_camel I didn't know my mother was Wiccan until I was seventeen.

Agreed, if that had happened Kurt would look like a huge ass, upset teenager or not. I mean, if Puck, the most tactless member of the Glee Club and probably the one he's the least friendly with, could do that why couldn't Mercedes, Quinn, and Rachel? Good intentions aside.

[crystal-marbles.livejournal.com]

It's never hinted that Burt is Christian and that's a pretty big leap to make without any substantial proof. Also; This wasn't about Burt; if it was there was no need to get Kurt involved in it. They could have gone home and quitly prayed; Mercedes forcing a reluctant Kurt to got to chucrch with her was NEVER about Burt. It was about Kurt.

(Also; I lol at everyone who thinks Kurt is the bad guy in this relationship. Mercedes purposfully ruined an important and expensive piece of Kurts property. Because she was jelous. Now, THATS over the line. Hell, It's borderline abusive.)