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fandomsecrets2007-01-15 04:15 pm
degrees.livejournal.com) wrote in fandomsecrets2007-01-15 04:15 pm
[ SECRET POST #010 ]
⌈ Secret Post #010 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 98 secrets from Secret Submission Post #002.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Tuesday, January 16, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: Here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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You can't say that when it's the first of it's genre to do what it did. If you can tell me that you had played a game that even tackled the concept of suicide, characters creating surrogate parents as coping mechanisms, or any of the million other points that the game brought up back then, I'm going to be tempted to say that you lied.
Secret of Mana, 1993 > Final Fantasy VI, 1994.
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Uh, but off the top of my head: None of the characters except the boy (who was forced/tricked into it by his father) really wanted to save the world--the girl wanted to save her boyfriend and the Sprite wanted to find out where he was from. So none of that WE ARE THE FORCES OF GOOD! stuff. Dyluck and the Sprite eventually died in the end, willingly and knowing they would going into it. The Sprite was the last of his kind; after that, they're extinct, and the player knows that. That's suicide enough, right? The Sprite also had a grandfather--who wasn't his real grandfather--and he tells him so, in the game. I forget whether he dies or not--I think he does, but I could be wrong. The boy also has adopted parents--the Elder of the village that kicks him out for being tricked into pulling the sword out by the ghost of his real father, how much does that suck? Also, the girl and the boy never had any romantic interaction whatsoever. The first interaction is actually HER saving HIM in a totally kickass way, then being all "aw dammit, you're NOT the guy I like. Sucks to be me." There were two (main) sets of villains (with tons more), the Empire and Thanatos, the guy behind the Emperor that was just using him (and eventually killed him by using him as a pawn and forcing him to fight you to the death). He also kills Dyluck by trying to take over his body. And almost kills Phannah too, by making YOU almost kill her after he mind controls all the people in Pandora and turns them into his mindless slaves/energy wells. And resurrects the sunken temple and the Mana Fortress. Thanatos was love. Other bad guys: the Witch, the crazy robot people, SANTA CLAUS (c'mon, SANTA CLAUS), various other greedy bastards trapping other elementals in whatever ways, various "mana" monsters. The last boss wasn't even technically a "bad guy," just a neutral force trying to preserve the world in an outdated way. FLAMMIE. He was the coolest "airship" EVER. There were MUSHROOM PEOPLE.
Uhhhh, I could go on, but *dies*
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FF VI had a lot of characters and was the first RPG I know, and maybe the only console RPG at that, to have no 'main' character. A character you spend the most time with, yes (in the guise of Terra/Celes) but they weren't main characters. They did not control the wheels of the world nor did they gather a rowdy bunch of miscreants together to save the world. Neither of them had any say in the military movements of The Returners, they didn't have any political power at all or have any super power that would stop the big baddie. (Terra's Half-esper state is, while a power, not a necessity against Kefka.)
Not to mention that this is the first bad guy to have ever really gotten his goal which is to rearrange the world according to his design, which is very Art Nouveau meets fuckyourshitup.
Another pivotal difference between FFVI and it's 'save-the-world' ending in comparison to everything else was, for once, the world NEEDS saving. There was no impending doom, no evil plot to take over the world to stop or any good versus evil battle in mind: They had already lost the entire world to Kefka's infantile like joy in destruction and what they want is their world back. They want another chance to live.
Sadly, not all of the protagonists shared the hero mentality. Terra, Strago and Cyan for example...
Terra didn't want anything to do with the heroics anymore and simply wants to be a mother to all the orphaned children and can't bring herself to fight knowing that there's a chance that she may die as well, leaving them with no one to care for them. If she had to live and die in the wasteland, it's okay as long as she can protect the children for as long as she can. She wasn't about to give up her place and only chance to be part of a family she never had just because someone has the crazy idea to fight a god. Only when she realizes how weak she is on her own does she accept your proposal and even then, it's tentative.
Stragus goes completely batshit insane knowing that he's probably lost Relm, the only thing that he's lived for as long as she's lived and resides to praying to Kefka for salvation. He didn't even give a shit if any of the other characters tried to convince him, without Relm life wasn't worth living. It was a literal 'Fuck you and your heroics, you're the reason why she died!' and only when you prove to him that Relm was indeed alive did he start caring again.
Cyan's family and lord are poisoned in cold blood. In a blind rage, he storms off into the enemy camp with all guns blazing and doesn't stop until you beat some sense into him. Even then the memory haunts him and he becomes delusional and believes they're still alive, waiting for him to just come home...
I doubt that anything this depressing was ever really written into a videogame back then.
If I were to begin ranting about the music, we'd be stuck forever. (Terra's theme? Dancing mad? Aria de Mezzo Caratarre? Jesus christ, these three songs are better than almost any other song in RPG history, but that's just personal opinion and what does that matter, right?)
All in all, Final Fantasy VI had done a lot more for videogames than anything else before it. Possibly even more so than a lot that came after it.
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A character you spend the most time with, yes (in the guise of Terra/Celes) but they weren't main characters. They did not control the wheels of the world nor did they gather a rowdy bunch of miscreants together to save the world. Neither of them had any say in the military movements of The Returners, they didn't have any political power at all or have any super power that would stop the big baddie.
Technically, neither did the boy/girl/Sprite in SoM. You could argue that all the magic you needed came from Elementals, but then all FFVI's magic came from Espers (or was inherent), too. Beating the game with weapons alone is possible in both games, and the Mana Sword thing was in the last battle only when you'd pretty much beaten the game without the "super powers" already. None of them are special or anything, just normal old people. I'm not sure what the power argument is. >>"
But yeah, that whole Returners thing was another turn-off for me. I hate that whole defined good-evil thing, which was definitely there in FFVI (while not as much in SoM; Mana Beasts, people being mind-controlled, good people becoming power-mad with the seeds like Santa, the guy on Gold Isle, the people living in the resort in the Icelands, etc--without the interference of the Empire whatsoever). In FFVI, it was all Returners are good and the Empire is bad! No question, end of story! And the Empire is always bad, always evil, yep, that's it--we can kill as many soldiers and people as we like and not feel bad about it at all = typical RPG. AVALANCHE in FFVII were at least terrorists, killing innocents too and eventually feeling awful about it; ShinRa was a totally neutral party in the overall plot of the game (though FFVII is overrated, too, and I can say that even if I like the game). But that's a whole other topic...
And I don't know, I really really loved the SoM characters way more than FFVI. Even though I love Terra and Celes (and loved the fact that every character had a backstory and depth), imo the SoM girl kicks both their asses any day--I mean while Terra and Celes are all "*angst* Who am I!? I don't want to face my problems! Won't someone rescue me?" the SoM girl is like "fuck you, SoM boy, I'm gonna follow you to find the guy I have a crush on (and drag you off into sidequests on the way) and you don't have a choice in the matter so bend over and take it!" She was the first RPG girl I'd ever seen that was just an ordinary, normal girl without command or position or powers (Faris doesn't count, she was pretending to be a guy) who was just so kick-ass-take-names--"I'm going to find Dyluck, and if I save the world along the way, fine." I wish -that- had been a breakthrough that had stuck.
All in all, Final Fantasy VI had done a lot more for videogames than anything else before it. Possibly even more so than a lot that came after it.
I'm not sure what you're claiming it did--all the things you're listing that FFVI did before any other RPG (no main character, bad guys getting their goals, people contemplating suicide?) hasn't been repeated in any good RPGs I know, while all the things that were "new" in SoM have been (or sadly, haven't been or at least not well, like the awesome 3-player capability or real active-time-battle or the ring/weapon/magic/fighting system. Evermore was sadly mostly crap). I thought FFVI was a good/great game in -spite- of all the things you listed, rather than -because- of them. Maybe I'm just weird?
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I guess I really did dwell really heavy on the suicide part, but it was more of the characters being so 'defeated' as a whole that I really wanted to point out. Celes was just the most iconic one of them all. (Not to mention that they all didn't angst out from the very beginning. Watching everyone you know supposedly die kinda counts as a good enough reason for the emodrama)
FFVI I believe made me feel that an RPG was more than just a bunch of good guys out to defeat the bad guy. (Discounting The Returners vs. The Empire. I really have no explanation for that.) While the plot of the story pretty much serves you the standard RPG fare for the first half, it's the World of Ruin that gets me every time. It's typical for an RPG to give the protagonists some sort of plot!obstacle to overcome but the complete destruction of the world as you know it was definitely something I didn't see done yet.
Of course, opinions weigh a lot heavier than anything else, but the prospect of an overbearing leading female, while interesting, causes the purpose of the male lead to falter. Why help her if not because she demanded you to? Why have her along if it doesn't really logically further your goal? If it weren't for the conveniently placed plot, would you have lost your chance to save the world because of the girl? You can't have one thing and not have the other suffer.
Final Fantasy VI was a turning point in writing for videogames and RPG's to be specific. It wasn't all about knights and prophecies and princesses in castles being kidnapped by the dark wizard. If it isn't the first, then it's the most prominent example of it for it's age.
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I never really got that feeling--that's probably why I don't consider FFVI to be amazing. Like good, yeah, but not one of my favorites. But then, a ton of other people (the ones that aren't all OMG graphix 3-D lolz) seem to agree that it was great, so I'm not disputing that. *dies*
But have you ever played SoM? The girl wasn't overbearing at all, just totally kickass. Assuming you did (and seriously try it if you haven't!), skip this whole paragraph. *dies* But yeah! Like, there are three ways for the plot to branch before you get the girl. She rescues you (<3--and why help her? You owe her your life! *dies*), then: 1. You go find her and she forces herself into your party (and you go do her quest through the witch's forest, which is related to yours anyway). 2. You don't go find her, and get the Sprite first, and then you find her in the woods alone. 3. You do go find her and she forces herself into your party, but you decide not to do her quest and go get the Sprite, in which case the girl is like "Fine, to hell with you, I don't need you!" and leaves to go fight by herself (which I thought was AWESOME <3 <3 <3) and you find her in the forest like you would've if you hadn't picked her up.
But then, like you said, it's all personal preference. SoM is easily my favorite SNES RPG ever. It wasn't all about knights and prophecies and princesses in castles being kidnapped by the dark wizard, either! The guy that gets mostly "kidnapped" is the guy the girl's crushing on the whole time. And the main character in the beginning kinda -causes- the whole thing in the first place (although mana was weakening already by the time he does anyway) by pulling out the sword and unleashing monsters everywhere (which is why the village kicks him out) so he's kinda partially cleaning up his own damn mess the whole time. *dies* And the whole time, it manages to be cute and stuff (flying dragons! Mushrooms! Rabites! Candy and Chocolate as healing items! Rudolph as an NPC!)
asfdaghkjg okay, yeah, I'm just fanboying this now. Uh, I'll stop.
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And sadly, I never got to play the game. ;(
I got around to playing Seiken Densetsu 3 though! It was fun! (Didn't dissect the game though, just ran through it once with an all boys team with Kevin in the lead (Kevin's plot is so WTF) and just forgot to replay it.)
I wish there was an english release of Mother 3. :(
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EARTHBOUND FTMFW!
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I don't think it ever came out in the US, though. I wonder if there's a GBA rom somewhere...