[ SECRET POST #1496 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1496 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 293 secrets from Secret Submission Post #214.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

21. http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4167/image5by.jpg

[archerstar.livejournal.com]

I never got the whole obsession with souls on that show. Humans do some horrible fucking things with souls, and that's practically hand waved away. But the actions of the same person soul/no-soul are treated as a completely different entity. They aren't two different people. They really aren't.

[(Anonymous)]

THIS. I always felt they really missed the point of their own damn show.

[mollywobbles867.livejournal.com]

Um, they've had villains with souls: Faith, the Trio, that watcher lady in the third season, Willow.

[archerstar.livejournal.com]

And I'd go so far as to say the actions of each (with the exception of Warren) were eventually explained away. Faith came from a bad home and was traumatized by the murder of her watcher. She was forgiven. The Trio were just misguided and under the leadership of a true sociopath. They were forgiven. Gwendolyn was consumed by the need for power. It wasn't really her fault. Willow was much the same. She was forgiven.

In all of these situations, the characters with the souls are forgiven, with barely there reasoning, whereas characters without souls are never allowed to do good things. They can never grow. How can they be good? They have no souls. It seems hypocritical to say that those without souls are evil, but those with them are bastions of light and good. They aren't.

I thought the one thing that became clear on the show was that it didn't matter if you had a soul or not. Bad things were bad things. And saying that Angelus was the one who killed Ms. Calendar and therefore Angel should be forgiven seems counter-intuitive. They're the same person.

[(Anonymous)]

The argument that soulless creatures could no good bothered me even more than the claim that souled people could always somehow be forgiven. Perhaps the best example was Spike. He was a kickass character who occasionally did good (even if it was often simultaneously self-serving - just like any other person in the world), but no one would really accept him as a potential ally until they gave him a soul (and made him completely boring and...toothless).

You can't convince me that Spike (or Angel or fill-in-the-blank) didn't love, didn't regret, didn't recognize emotions beyond Kill!Destroy! But oh no, only people with souls could really feel things.

Their approach to dealing with rather complex issues was just so incredibly superficial and black-and-white. That's disappointing.

[archerstar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Spike is my most obvious example. Yes, he may have been getting something out of it, but like you said, what human doesn't do things for selfish reasons? And as the seasons progressed, he did things out of love for another being, human or not. I believe (and will continue to believe) he loved Dawn. A "soulless demon incapable of love (or empathy/whatever)" would have given up Dawn as the key to Glory in a heartbeat.

But there are tons of demons we see in the show who are completely harmless or who even do good things but "don't have souls". Take Clem, for instance. He took care of Dawn out of the goodness of his heart, which apparently, he's not supposed to be able to do. Or Brachen (sp?) demons like Doyle. Kind of scary looking, but completely harmless to humans.

Yeah. They kind of failed at dealing with complex metaphysical issues. I would get so encouraged and think they were going in the right direction and then they'd completely blow that out of the water.

[yourlivewire.livejournal.com]

i never really got the impression that they forgave faith, tbh.

Re: ...

[curlychikk.livejournal.com]

According to the lore of the show, they are. That was the point. Souls were what made them human.

Re: ...

[(Anonymous)]

ats branches out more on that, though really the point of angel was that he really was completely different with a soul and he did regret what he did.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh man, I loved her a lot.

[greenhoodloxley.livejournal.com]

Buffy's forgiveness? Hello, what about Giles?

[innatizzy.livejournal.com]

Psh, you silly person, thinking anyone's feelings matter outside of Buffy's.

[(Anonymous)]

seriously? jenny had that coming.

[gershwhen.livejournal.com]

She totally did! The only one I felt sorry for was Giles.

[fy04.livejournal.com]

THANK GOODNESS I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE!!!!

[missing-mile-15.livejournal.com]

GILES STAYS IN THE APARTMENT EVEN AFTER THAT HAPPENS, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK

[shuukuchi.livejournal.com]

Yeeeah... It feels like something where if they'd spent 5 minutes explaining his emotional process (hoping angel would come back so he could kill him, giles thinking he himself deserved to be punished for not being able to save her and staying to hurt himself, not being able to leave out of some sense of loyalty and love and eventually just calming down into it being his apartment again), it would've been okay. It's also too bad they didn't show how he felt when he left Sunnydale and the apartment since that could've also shown it. They really missed an opportunity there...

[clau019.livejournal.com]

The scene when Angelus kills her is one of the scariest of the show, IMO. Usually it's obvious if the person is going to die or escape, but in this case I had no idea. The whole episode rocks, actually. One of my favorites.

[anongel.livejournal.com]

Well I really am sorry about it, though I know nothing I do can bring her back, or any of my other victims. I know I'm a selfish creature for being happy about Buffy's forgiveness.

[fictionalbf.livejournal.com]

Thank you, now I have tea all over my monitor.

[yukinoomoni.livejournal.com]

I lol'ed.

[ainekatt.livejournal.com]

Oh man, me too.

I can't believe Buffy forgave him for that.

I can't believe GILES forgave him for that.

It's like, oh, no soul? We can just let it go then. It was just a brutal murder. No big.

Ugh.

[ladycallie.livejournal.com]

Me either, Anon. :( One of the few things I hate about BtVS is how they don't give the characters time to grieve over Jenny or Tara. Joyce's death was handled very well, but the other women were all but brushed off.

[21lights.livejournal.com]

LOL, I always forget all about her until someone brings her up.