[ SECRET POST #1509 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1509 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 376 secrets from Secret Submission Post #216.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[meadowphoenix]

Something inherently bothers me about your comment.

I will leaving aside their motivations because I see them both jealousy and revenge-fueled. I pretty sure Petunia's internal torment about magic was to her as hurtful as Snape's physical torment form the Marauders. I call them equal because Snape always had the chance and often did fight back, while there was absolutely nothing Petunia could do about her situation (not to mention that Snape gleefully threw it back in her face, and also harmed her in a way she certainly felt was deliberate. I'm pretty sure Petunia felt Snape's contempt for her magiclessness.)

You respond as if Snape would have tried to save Harry, I'm not sure why you put that he cared for him, without Dumbledore's interference. I disagree. He certainly wasn't thinking of Harry when he begged Dumbledore to save Lily. HE wouldn't have thought about it at all, if Dumbledore hadn't given him the idea that it was the only way to appease his wrongs. Also, he was also doing it out of guilt, since he told Voldemort the prophecy. Nor did he put himself in constant danger for Harry, nor did he frequently go out of his way to help Harry. He was perfectly fine letting Harry be in danger by not making more of an effort to help him in Occlumency, which Dumbledore had to force him into, and he seemed to have used those lessons as ways to legitimately harm him. He saved Harry 1.5 times: once in first year, and the half-point for presumably being the one to tell the Order about the DoM. That's the extent of his aid. Giving Harry the sword wasn't really trying to save him at all.

If Snape had Harry full-time like Petunia did, I would have a hard time thinking that he would have treated Harry any better.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

I call them equal because Snape always had the chance and often did fight back, while there was absolutely nothing Petunia could do about her situation (not to mention that Snape gleefully threw it back in her face, and also harmed her in a way she certainly felt was deliberate. I'm pretty sure Petunia felt Snape's contempt for her magiclessness.)

Then I'd say her contempt for Snape would be justified. But towards James? And towards Harry? I can't see a justification for that.

If I said that Snape cared for Harry, I meant strictly in a guardian/looking-after sense, not in an emotional or loving sense. I also put in another comment that his actions were partially out of guilt as well. I just didn't put that in my first comment cuz I was on a different train of thought at the time.

And perhaps Snape's danger wasn't constant insofar as Voldemort wasn't really around for 10~ years but playing double agent for Dumbledore was an extremely high-risk thing. And to be fair, he DID try to help Harry with Occlumency. But Harry kept wanting to have those visions of Voldemort and he wasn't practicing. Yes, Snape was harsh with him and a dick to him during lessons but he can't get into Harry's head and force him to practice his Occlumency.

I think the fact that Snape didn't have Harry full-time like Petunia did makes her actions even worse. She had Harry from infancy. He grew up in her home, along with her son. And she let her feelings about her sister, magic, and James fester to the point that she let it allow Harry to be treated the way he was. I'd like to think that a person would act better than that in the fact of an innocent child, one that nearly died and was their own blood relation.

[(Anonymous)]

Then I'd say her contempt for Snape would be justified. But towards James? And towards Harry? I can't see a justification for that.

So why is it magically okay for Snape to hold bullshit against Harry? I can't see a justification for that.

And everything you say at the end could be said for Snape. He let his own jealousies and past failures fester to the point that he actively singled out Harry for abuse. I'd like to think that a person would act better towards an innocent child who nearly died and became an orphan due to Snape's own actions (which he was never sorry for, btw).

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

It's NOT OK. But if I had to weight one against the other, I'd say being mean to someone because they look just like someone else who tortured you when you were younger (which is a normal human reaction BTW) and who you see as the result of that person stealing your girl (however deluded that may be) is a little bit heavier than treating your own sister's son like crap for his whole life. But I guess this is just my brain.

[(Anonymous)]

Um...Snape is the reason why Harry is an orphan to begin with. If it hadn't been for Snape and his fucking crazy issues Harry would still have a family. I don't think it's fair to include Petunia and Harry being blood as a reason why her abuse was SO MUCH WORSE, while excluding the fact that Snape played a huge part in getting Harry into that situation to begin with. You'd think that fact that you killed a kid's parents would lend a little guilt and sympathy, Professor Snape says nay!

Although, had it been up to him, Harry would have just been killed anyway.

And he wasn't just mean to Harry. He was straight up an abusive dick to an innocent child.

There is straight up no excuse for Snape's treatment of Harry. None. Just like there's no excuse for Petunia's treatment of him. They are two sides of the same coin.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

I can't remember if I said it to you or not cuz I've commented a lot. It's really hard to argue for what you think is the lesser of two evils without looking like you're trying to turn one into a saint and damn the other. From your reaction, I'd say I'm failing.

p.s I kinda LOLed at the end of your thing cuz that "two sides" thing is a Merlin quote. :)

[meadowphoenix]

You're saying that she would associate all of that with Snape or even blame Snape for all of that, and therefore her contempt for her would be justified. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying she probably blamed magic. It seems to me that Petunia and Lily used to hang out together all the time and then they learned about Lily's magic, and suddenly Petunia's skulking in bushes alone. Snape seems to hate her because she has no magic. Snape initially seems to like Lily, because of magic. Dumbledore tells her that magic is inherent from birth, so if Lily is treated specially by her parents because she had magic, that means (to a kid anyway) that Petunia is not special. So she transferred her hate to a small boy much the way Snape transferred his. There isn't a justification for either.

I know what you meant when you said cared for. That's what I meant too.

I agree being a double agent was extremely high-risk. But he wasn't doing it for Harry's safety so it's not something you can take into account when your weighing his actions toward Harry. To be fair, neither of them tried, but we're not talking about Harry's inability to get it together, we're talking about Snape's. Yelling is not trying. Pounding relentlessly into someone's mind like a blunt object until they are on the ground and then making attacks on some kid's self-worth when said kid cannot stop said blunt object isn't even teaching. "Clear your mind" isn't really a method worthy of note.

How does Snape being incredibly mean to Harry on a part time basis make Petunia being mean on a full time basis worse? You're right in that Petunia let her emotions severely cloud her judgment. And so did Snape. And if you're going to make the argument that Snape had James staring him in the face on a daily basis, then you also have to agree that Snape had 10 years to get over it, while Petunia didn't. And here's really the extenuating circumstances that make them equal. We only see Petunia treat Harry this way, which is horrible in of itself. Snape treats other kids for whom he has none of the baggage he has with Harry, in a similar way. For Petunia, it is about her emotions. For Snape, it seems to be about him.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

Pounding relentlessly into someone's mind like a blunt object until they are on the ground and then making attacks on some kid's self-worth when said kid cannot stop said blunt object isn't even teaching. "Clear your mind" isn't really a method worthy of note.

I don't really know how one would go about teaching something like that. It's like teaching someone to jump. And you can't even show them because it happens in your head. You can only really tell them what it's supposed to be like. And to be fair, Harry wasn't taking it seriously. He'd go back to his room and seek out the connection between him and Voldemort. Yes, it helped save Mr. Weasley but that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't serious about his Occlumency. The fact that Snape took pleasure in it makes him a giant dick and a jerk-off but saying "Clear your mind" is the only instruction I would think to give too.

Petunia has 10 years in the face of her nephew, who she raised from infancy, while Snape had ten years on his own with his guilt and his grief and his craziness. I'm not surprised he turned out the way he did or treated Harry like he did. Snape was always an emotional wreck that didn't know how to act around people. The fact that he treats almost everyone the way he does, while contemptible, is not surprising. He's a lot like a Scrooge figure, (if you'll excuse the term) socially retarded and, by extension, cruel because I doubt he remembers how to be any other way. The Death Eaters aren't exactly an affectionate bunch lol.

[meadowphoenix]

I agree that Harry wasn't taking a single aspect of those lessons seriously. But that isn't being fair, since Harry not taking them seriously has nothing to do with Snape's actions, at first at least. But you can teach someone to jump. Bend your knees and then straighten them while pushing against the ground is pretty detailed and a valid method with actual steps to follow. Snape could have given Harry any meditation book and would've been more helpful. And what did Snape mean when he said "Clear your mind?" Did he mean "imagine your head as a white space with nothing in it" or "Think of increasingly fewer subjects until you can hold only one in your mind for an extended period" or "Focus on a spot and focus only on that spot for as long as you can"? These are all clearing the mind techniques, and all of them are more step oriented than "clear you mind." Besides, presumably Snape is intelligent enough to see if there are any books on the subject (which there probably were since there were even books on Horcruxes) and give them to Harry. The onus of extolling knowledge falls on Snape since he is the teacher and he is more experienced. He didn't teach, and he didn't try.

But my point was that Petunia did not have the distance Snape had, so any excuse that he had James looking him in the face isn't one that is more forgivable. Also, there is absolutely no evidence that by the time Snape was teaching Harry he didn't know how to act around people. Scrooge and Snape have a lot in common, especially that they choose to act that way despite having access to other paths. It still doesn't make Snape more understandable than Petunia.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

I think the fact that Petunia didn't have distance from Harry makes me judge her more harshly. Family is an important thing. I was raised to believe that no matter how much you may dislike your family, they're still your family and they're worth more to you than anyone else in the world. Even if my sister and I fell out tomorrow and I never spoke to her again, if I found out she'd died and that her child was alone in the world, I would take him in an instant and raise him like any child that I could have for myself. Because she's my sister and this is her infant child. Regardless of anything else, she's my sister and I would never ill-treat her child. So that's why I judge Petunia so harshly.

[meadowphoenix]

If that's you're worldview then I see why you would feel as you do. I myself could not understand how anyone would treat a child that way, family or no, so I judge them equally hard. Also, where I live, while it's still hard to remove a child from an unhappy home, it's harder still to remove a teacher who abuses his power over his students, mostly because of unions. I also feel like Harry felt he had slightly more power as he got older in his relationship with his relatives, but that it never equalized with Snape.