[ SECRET POST #1509 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1509 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 376 secrets from Secret Submission Post #216.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 4 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

I never said he wasn't a bully but being a petty asshole to a kid is not child abuse. Not feeding them, barely clothing them, psychologically scarring then, and beating/allowing someone to beat them is.

[(Anonymous)]

Uh, Snape was pretty obviously psychologically and emotionally abusive not just towards Harry (although he and his close friends got the worst of it), but also to tons of other students. He was in a position of power and used that to make their lives miserable.

What about (as an example that first pops to mind because someone used it up-thread) him not letting Hermione go to the nurse when her teeth were growing too large to fit in her mouth, and not only neglecting her but also insulting her, isn't abusive?

Snape is a child-abuser. The only reason Harry got it worse from Petunia was because he was around her more frequently then he was around Snape. There's no part of me that believes Snape would have treated Harry exactly the same way if he had been in Petunia's place (...somehow...).

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

I haven't been making commentary on Snape's actions outside of his actions towards Harry and I'd most likely agree with you if I were.

Still, people keep saying that they don't think Snape would have treated Harry better. I'm just not too quick to make that call. I can't help feeling like raising a child from infancy, the child of your late sister, should make a person act better, not worse. Seriously, it's not like Harry was 10 and an awful kid when he came to the Durseleys. He was a baby and they still managed to treat him like they did. Something about the fact that Harry was an infant just makes me less inclined to cut them some slack.

[(Anonymous)]

...Snape was a-okay with having Voldemort kill Harry. At the very fucking least, Petunia didn't try to have a baby killed. Just sayin.

Also, it's not like Harry was a raging dick when Snape met him. Harry didn't deserve Snape's treatment any more than he deserved the Dursley's. From the very second that Snape was in a position of power over Harry, he used that to torment him.

What a saint!

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

This is very true. Although I'm sure someone could argue that Petunia wouldn't have taken Harry in if Dumbledore was just like "Harry's an orphan. Will you take care of him?"

I'm not saying he's a saint. I guess I'm just weighing it differently. Like, if you're gonna engage in a debate about which abuse was worse, being awful to someone who looks like someone who used to torment you weighs less heavily than being awful to your infant nephew.

They're both really awful people. It's just hard to argue for the lesser of two evils without looking like you're trying to sanctify one and damn the other. And it seems like I'm really failing at it.

[(Anonymous)]

This is very true. Although I'm sure someone could argue that Petunia wouldn't have taken Harry in if Dumbledore was just like "Harry's an orphan. Will you take care of him?"

And the argument could be made that Snape wouldn't have done jack shit for Harry if Dumbledore hadn't have been like, "Probably you could maybe help an infant child not die to make up to his dead mom for the fact that you killed her."

And I'm weighing a guy who was just fine with having a child straight up murdered, as long as he could have Lily (however he thought that was going to go down...), then proceeded to be an abusive fuck towards this innocent kid the very second that he gets a chance, on a different level than a woman who is abusive towards a child because of her own issues.

Because, at the very, ABSOLUTE least, Petunia didn't try to have a baby killed.

Just sayin.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not one or the other, you know. A teacher being a "petty asshole" to a student can be abuse.

[stormseye.livejournal.com]

An adult in a position of power over children and ABUSING that power (playing favorites or saying hurtful, downright insulting things knowing they can silence those children should they wish to defend themselves) is ABUSING those children and therefore Child Abuse.

Say awful, hurtful things to children in order to make them upset. Threatening to kill their pets. This is emotional abuse.

Just because there is no physical harm doesn't mean there isn't damage.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

When I read the books, I saw all that stuff with Snape and other kids and thought Snape was a giant douche but I never felt an outrage on Harry's behalf. IDK why. The books just gave me the impression that Harry never felt Snape's barbs in any way beyond "wow he's a dick. What's his problem?" (except for the ones about James in the first books.)

[stormseye.livejournal.com]

Harry being affected? Perhaps not, but he was used to abuse as you say. Hermione bursting into tears because of him? Yes.

Neville, who had his parents tortured to insanity, developing a fear of him that eclipses all other? And for good reason? Yeah. Threatening to kill his pet, and it being obvious that's exactly what Snape wanted? Kinda goes past "what a dick".

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

Yes I agreed with you. That's why I said that I felt more outrage on the part of the other children but not on Harry's. We are definitely on the same page with that.

[stormseye.livejournal.com]

Just because it wasn't the worst thing Harry has been faced with, doesn't mean it wasn't abuse. Snape judged him from the moment he walked in Hogwarts and never let up until Harry fought back, thus giving Snape an actual reason to dislike him. Threatening him with truth potion? Calling him names? Allow other children to bully him in his class? Is that not abuse from a teacher?

[(Anonymous)]

Different anon here. I wonder if that's partially because of the circumstances though. Like when Harry is with the Dursleys, he has literally no one else. But once he goes to Hogwarts, he's suddenly surrounded by people who are like him; he has good friends for the first time in his life, and people admire and look up to him just because of who he is. Basically, the books are really deeply entrenched in Harry's POV and when we see him with the Dursleys he's totally miserable, but when he's at Hogwarts he hates and distrusts Snape (as Snape has given him every reason to) but as a result of circumstances totally beyond Snape's control, he is generally pretty happy. I don't doubt that had Snape had been in charge of Harry's upbringing he wouldn't have been equally shitty to Harry, but YMMV on that. I don't even know why I'm here. I have no dog in this fight.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what you're responding to but I generally agree with what you said.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, that whole occlumency scene where he brutally tears into Harry's memories and psyche in the guise of "lessons" - that's not abusive at all. And that's one example only.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

To be fair, it's not like Voldemort was gonna be like "Oh Harry, am I going too fast for you?" Snape wasn't teaching him Occlumency for fun; he was teaching him how to keep Voldemort out of his head. Yes, he got sick satisfaction from it but that doesn't change the fact that it was somewhat necessary, especially since the bond between Voldemort and Harry's minds was proven to be extremely strong.

[moon-very-thin.livejournal.com]

Snape wasn't teaching him Occlumency at all.

I mean, he was meant to be. But he really wasn't.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

How does one go about teaching something like that besides saying "Do this. If you don't, it won't work." It's like trying to teach someone to jump; you can't do it for them. They have to do it themselves. You can really only instruct. And Harry wasn't taking it very seriously. He was actively seeking out the connection with Voldemort almost every night.

[moon-very-thin.livejournal.com]

Snape never taught Harry the basics or any techniques. Nor even any theory beyond 'emotions are bad and weak'. He attacked him in the manner he thought Voldemort would to demonstrate to Harry what he was up against, and sneered at him for not being ready. And then he did it again. And then he did it again. He gave Harry lots of practice at having Legilimency used against him, but that's not the same as equipping him with the tools to fight it.

If you're going to teach somebody a martial art, you start by teaching them the basics of stance and blocking. You don't beat the shit out of them. Learning a language, you do some basic vocab rather than talking away in the new language without offering any reference point. Nobody can be expected to do calculus without having been taught more basic maths, or to swim a lap without mastering how to float.

And perhaps it is a more instinctive thing, like jumping rather than a more teachable skill. But then Snape's still expecting Harry to leap a chasm before he's learned to bounce on the spot.

I agree that Harry didn't put in the effort, but neither did Snape. And then he stopped giving him lessons all together, without arranging for anyone else to take over. One can argue that Harry would never have learned from him anyway, but this episode more than any other was an instance of Snape's issues making him crappy at his job, tbh.

[(Anonymous)]

And his "instruction" was nothing more than telling a child, "close your mind while I mentally attack you." You can teach someone to jump by doing a lot more than telling them to jump. So yeah, calling bullshit on that. It smacks of victim-blaming, which is a term I hate to use because it's obnoxious, but this is a pretty good example of it.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

Yes, you can show them by jumping yourself or you can hold them and lift them through the motions. The analogy doesn't quite fit because it's hard to think of something that you can teach someone without being able to show them yourself, like Occlumency. It happens in your head and you can't really show the other person what it's supposed to feel like. I always counted it as one of those things that you couldn't really do right unless you were doing it right.

[(Anonymous)]

Idunno, I can pretty easily think of better ways to teach Occlumency than (as someone below put it) bludgeoning the student then berating them for failing.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

The bludgeoning I think I can forgive; the berating I assuredly don't forgive. I think that may be where I'm misunderstood on this subject.

[(Anonymous)]

O_o



ok.

[wldcatsprstr-14.livejournal.com]

LOL that sounded awful. I meant that being hard on someone because you have to is something I can forgive. Getting sadistic pleasure out of it is something that I can't forgive.