[ SECRET POST #1555 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1555 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 076 secrets from Secret Submission Post #222.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - unreadable ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[countess-k.livejournal.com]

I think the reason John's relationship with Dean is portrayed more as an abusive one in the fandom is because of the little bits and pieces about it given to us on the show. In Devil's Trap Dean says that John wouldn't be proud of him for using a bullet to save Sam's life, he's tear him a new one. If that doesn't sound abusive I don't know what is. And that bit about Flagstaff. I know Dean didn't elaborate but his facial expression was quite telling. And of course there's that part with Wee!Dean and the Shtriga. Fandom has a habit of taking a thread and making a whole gown out of it.

Sam on the other hand has shown moments where he clearly wants to knock some sense into Dean about caring less about his family and more about himself. In Season 3 he told Dean to stop worrying about him and start worrying about himself and give a crap that he's dying. Maybe that's why people think if they got together the relationship would be more balanced and less abusive than the John/Dean dynamic where Dean would always be in an obedient position.

[(Anonymous)]

Fandom has a habit of taking a thread and making a whole gown out of it.
Probably right. And taking the bad things is so much more fun than taking the love, the smiles, and the self-sacrifice.

Flagstaff, okay, but "tearing him a new one"? There is such a thing as exaggeration. People regularly say things like "my parents would kill me" or "I'd be grounded for life" even when their parents would never as much as slap them or yell at them. Dean basically just saying that John would be fucking mad at him does not mean that John would actually get physically abusive.

It just generally seems kinda unfair. Of course Sam, as a main character over six seasons, gets more opportunities to grow as a character, to recognize his mistakes, to better himself, than John, who was only around for a couple of episodes and who was never a character in his own right (like Dean and Sam), but only "the father figure" who had a clear function in the story. If John had been around for six seasons, I'm sure he wouldn't be reduced to one or two scenes either.

[venomlaced.livejournal.com]

Dean basically just saying that John would be fucking mad at him does not mean that John would actually get physically abusive.

I would agree with this, but seeing as how Sam and Dean have beaten the shit out of each other more than once (especially with Dean throwing the first punch), I don't think it's an unfair assumption that they might have learned to deal with confrontation or displeasure that way from John Winchester. I'm not saying that's what was intended by the writers, but I also wouldn't rule that out as a possibility or a reason why some people might get that idea. But hey, interpretation is a big part of fandom.

[countess-k.livejournal.com]

What I was pointing out mostly wasn't the implied physical abuse. Of course it could have been just admonishment and nothing violent. My intention was to highlight the fact that Dean was SO certain John wouldn't be proud of him for saving his brother's life and instead would focus on the gun he needed to kill the demon.

[(Anonymous)]

In Devil's Trap Dean says that John wouldn't be proud of him for using a bullet to save Sam's life, he's tear him a new one. If that doesn't sound abusive I don't know what is.
"Tearing a new one" is a pretty common idiom in the US for being incredibly angry and shouty. That is not necessarily abuse, at all.

[venomlaced.livejournal.com]

I'll just repost what I said above...

I would agree with this, but seeing as how Sam and Dean have beaten the shit out of each other more than once (especially with Dean throwing the first punch), I don't think it's an unfair assumption that they might have learned to deal with confrontation or displeasure that way from John Winchester. I'm not saying that's what was intended by the writers, but I also wouldn't rule that out as a possibility or a reason why some people might get that idea. But hey, interpretation is a big part of fandom.

[countess-k.livejournal.com]

Like I said in my previous post, it's not whether there was physical violence or not. It's about John seemingly never praising Dean for things he did right yet being quick to punish him (physically or not. Dean looked sensitive enough to be affected even by a disapproving look from his father,) if he did anything wrong.