fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1555 ]

[ SECRET POST #1555 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1555 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 076 secrets from Secret Submission Post #222.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - unreadable ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

>So it honestly would not surprise me if Hussie, at some point, came out and said that well yeah, of course Dave is FTM.

except he's not
as a trans anon, please stop fetishizing something i'm struggling with

in what way do you see that as fetishising?

This plz

Even if you badly want to demonstrate how much you ~lurve trans characters for brownie points, you could at least pick characters who are actually confirmed trans in their canons (who seem to get no love or attention anywhere, hmm i wonder why) instead of imposing trans identities on characters willy nilly.

characters who are actually confirmed trans in their canons (who seem to get no love or attention anywhere, hmm i wonder why)

Because almost all canon trans characters in fiction are horrible transphobic caricatures?

Also, being more cynical, because almost all canon trans characters in fiction are female, and fandom is only interested in pretty boys, especially if there's potential for angst. (Well-adjusted, post-transition trans men? Not so much.)

... Me liking the fanon of transdude Dave doesn't mean I don't like the trans and genderqueer folk in my other fandoms!

You know, all like... um... man I can think of like three or four that are unambiguously notcis. A couple more if I go for one-off victims of violent crimes who never actually appear on-screen alive, or gag characters that only appear once or in the background.

Maybe it's because I'm mostly in scifi, comic, game, and cartoon fandoms, though. Are trans characters more common in non-fantasy live action stuff?

look, anon. not that i don't agree with you that, in the case of fanon trans characters, it sometimes comes off as cis people desperately trying to show how accepting they are and all that, because i do! but...what canon trans characters? you mean the total caricatures that exist entirely to garner laughs from the majorly cis audience? the one-note jokes with no depth whatsoever, that are very definitely not intended to be interesting or likable, and have no characterization beyond "hahaha look they're transgender ISN'T THAT FUNNY"?

because seriously, i'm drawing a blank here. the only real exceptions would be probably be in series that center around being trans - hourou musuko, for instance. honestly, the main reason i like fanon trans characters is because canon trans characters, for the most part, don't exist in a way i can relate to. simple as that.

If I may make a reccomendation? There is a really fantastic possibly-not-cis character in HUGE, Alistair/Athena. A lot of his character arc is him trying to settle into not giving a damn about what people think of him and having a non-standard gender presentation, and while he's still discovering himself at the end of the (first and only) season, he's really absolutely wonderful.

(HUGE is wonderful all over the place, though. It's also the only show I've ever seen where a character came out as asexual, and the creator is kickass as hell (http://blog.twowholecakes.com/2010/09/this-is-why-your-tv-is-fat-q-a-with-savannah-dooley/) and the main character is an angry feminist teen and just. SO GOOD. <3 )

oh, i've heard of that! sounds really good, actually. and i knew of transfic for that particular character (from checking the trans tag on ao3 from time to time - i read even for canons i don't know, lmao), but i didn't know they were actually possibly trans in-canon.

although, if it was cancelled, i'm guessing it's never going to get a legit release outside of america :/ shame. well, whatever. i'll just try to find somewhere to watch it that doesn't lock out non-americans.

Reccomendation; Adam from Degrassi is a wonderful ftm chara.

I-- am I fetishizing? D:

I honestly think it's awesome fanon because there are like no trans characters anywhere? K-kind of like how I think it's awesome that there's an asexual character in Huge, because there are no asexuals in fiction anywhere; or how I really love that the majority of the trolls are bisexual, because it's way more common to see monosexual characters, and how I love that Equius is subby as hell, because you almost never see sympathetic characters with kinks like that.

B-but if I should shut up and sit in a corner and think about what I've done wrong, please tell me, anon. I try to be an ally, but it can be hard to figure out where boundaries lie in fandoms, sometimes. ;_;

Other trans anon here (ftm), and I agree. I liked the idea when it first popped up, but now it's a clusterfuck of cis people using any semblance of identity issues as a plot device for their porn fic. mtf!jade/ftm!dave also annoys me since it's got an "oooh pair the trannies so kawaii desu the weird ones belong together" vibe to it.

Some people cry foul about slash fiction appropriating homosexuality for a straight person's fetishes, and that's fair. Why is hard for someone to understand that someone else may share similar feelings about basically making light of transexual people.

Some people cry foul about slash fiction appropriating homosexuality for a straight person's fetishes, and that's fair.

kjsafhkdjsh ACTUALLY THIS IS REALLY A PET PEEVE OF MINE. (I am only only only talking about this sentence and nothing else in your comment because as a cis person and I am obviously fumbling in this conversation somehow so I am going to stop trying to talk about trans stuff!)

The vast, vast, vast majority of slash writers are not straight. There are straight slash writers, but the majority are not! So saying that "oh those heterosexual women are oppressing the gay men with their porn" is actually really kind of terrible, and silences the not-straight majority of slashers who use slash to explore their own queerness. And this happens a lot, where the argument will get started, and a queer lady or gent will be all, "Um, but how can I be appropriating queer experiences when...?" and then everyone else will be "YOU ARE THE MINORITY SO SHUT UP" and basically it is really terrible and smacks of queer men using their status AS queer to silence and oppress women without anyone protesting.

[/rambling]

DA

uhh "the vast, vast, vast majority of slash writers are not straight"?

I am not denying the existence of queer slashers but I think you've got a pretty skewed perspective here.

http://melannen.dreamwidth.org/77558.html?format=light

N-no, this is pretty well backed up. Much better backed up than the "common knowledge" that slashers are straight women, which is... based on one paper on once newsgroup twenty years ago.

... Those polls all draw from a very limited demographic. All but two are conducted from Livejournal or adjacent sites (Dreamwidth), where there are a larger number of queer users in general.

I don't know about the possibility or feasibility of polling from a much larger fan population (such as those on FFNet, or deviantART), but I wouldn't be surprised if a larger majority identified as straight than queer at least within those communities.

... but like i said:

Much better backed up than the "common knowledge" that slashers are straight women, which is... based on one paper on once newsgroup twenty years ago.

The idea that slashers are straight has NO BASIS IN ANYTHING:

Finally, Wikipedia's reference for saying that "polls claim most slashers are heterosexual women", which has propagated everywhere, is Anne Kustritz's paper "Slashing the Romance Narrative", first published in the Journal of Amercan Culture in 2003, available in pdf here: http://www.laurientaylor.org/research/sources/slashfic.pdf . She, in turns, cites three informal fandom essays[...] The first is a clearly parodic essay on the Sith Academy, http://www.siubhan.com/sithacademy/criticalintro.html , which uses no poll or survey data, and does not even touch on the question of slashers' sexuality (despite Kustritz' citation implying it does.)

The idea that at least half of slashers are not straight has A LOT OF SUPPORT:
So, over 9 polls, in a variety of slash subfandoms from the late-teens yaoi set to the mid-thirties meta fans set, dates ranging over 7 years. Only onetwo polls had less than 50% queer participants, and that wasone of them the earliest one, and even they were at 37% and 47%. The median percent of queer participants was 59.7%, and the mean was 61.5% 60.8%.

Painting queer girls as a vast minority is, yeah, silencing.

I'm not saying "vast" minority. I'm saying minority. In communities like LJ queer girl slashers probably do compose the majority, but I have a hard time believing that to be the case on the whole, if only because LJ and its adjacent userbases are a lot more queer-positive than other fan watering holes.

Those polls are incredibly biased. It's like walking into a bar and taking a poll of age groups and alcohol intake, and then saying the vast majority of people between ages X and X drink alcohol.

You can get data to back up any statement - especially with polling - doesn't mean the statement is any more (or less) true.

oppressing the gay men
Same anon there, but where did I say this? I said it's appropriated. Made edible and safer for an audience and author who can't possibly relate. That makes some people uncomfortable, and I'm relating to that feeling when transsexualism is treated like a novelty. It's not unique to fandom either, it's prevalent in mainstream porn too.

silencing women
Funny. You're trying to silence them for daring to have a problem with the way slash is presented. When I say slash, I mean femmeslash too. And when I talk about straight people, I mean people of any gender.

delusions of those who id as queer being the majority in fandom via a poll for select communities
I didn't even refer to who populates fandom circles, and yet that does not make a difference to my point. You don't need to be in "power" to appropriate.

I have the feeling you're taking my comment as a stance against the idea of fandom in general along with ideas that come along with it. Everyone's free to write, draw, or come up with what they want. However one shouldn't be so unaware as to dismiss concerns or realize why certain works can hurt. "But nooo it's my fanfic and I want to enjoy it >:(" No one is saying you can't.

this just in

you're a dumbass

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #1555 ]

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