Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-04-09 03:42 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-04-09 03:42 pm
[ SECRET POST #1558 ]
⌈ Secret Post #1558 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 291 secrets from Secret Submission Post #223.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
I'll address this point by point, because I'm full of hayfever and my head is guhh.
non-Jews shouldn't be involved in holidays where there is actual ritual and law involved.
This is what I meant by non-Jews not saying the b'rachot. They shouldn't fulfill the mitzvah.*
So I would not invite a non-Jewish friend to services in shul
Non-Jewish friends do occasionally come to synagogues. Usually for B'nei Mitzvot or other special occasions. I think I mentioned that Lauren has shown up when I have given sermons before, and my (non-Jewish) father has been for 'special occasions', too. I don't see how simply existing in a service is problematic as long as we're not allowing non-Jews to wear tallitot, etc. This, too, happens in Orthodox synagogues. It's not like we're advertising that non-Jews should come to shul, but most of us have close friends who we'd like to be around for certain occasions.
As for your other examples, I think they depend on circumstance. I would have no problem inviting a non-Jewish friend for a seder, as long as they are there to watch and listen and eat. I've found this happening in very orthodox circles, too.
*You have me wondering about Lauren's 'participation', now. For example, when I make Havdalah I usually have her hold the candle as it makes it easier for me to manouver the wine and spices while keeping an eye on the book. She doesn't sing the b'rachot (she does 'lai lai lai' along, though), but she is in a sense participating in a ritual. I suspect it's because I come from a more liberal (or, well, liberal orthodox) background, but I don't really see a problem in that, as long as she's not attempting to fulfill mitzvot.
no subject
Honestly, the whole thing confuses me, as to where to 'draw the line' as it were. On the one hand, I think that a non-Jew doesn't belong observing or participating in ritual. On the other hand, does that mean that I should say your father shouldn't attend special events in your life (of course not). On the other other hand, there are women who have worked in my grandmother's store for decades (who used to work for my great-great grandmother) who consider themselves part of the family and come to our weddings.
So. Yeah. Confused.
But definitely agreed that they should not be participating in mitzvos/ritual.
no subject
Another issue I came across earlier today: a good friend of mine recently converted, and was married just this morning, and her non-Jewish family (I think mother and sister?) stood at the chuppah with her and participated in that. I'm curious as to the halacha on that, since conversion is (legally speaking) separating yourself from your non-Jewish family...
no subject
A close friend of mine has a father who is more or less completely off the derech and while he attended her wedding, he did not stand under her chuppah (her mother did, though, which everyone thought was strange, especially because her parents are divorced and its supposed to be another 'married' couple that 'gives you away).
So, I don't know that I'd see a problem with them attending (again, as you say, the conversion legally separates them; to the best of my knowledge it doesn't require that they cut all ties). I would have to imagine that if they 'participated' it was in a symbolic way and your friend had a different couple to 'give her away'?
no subject