[ SECRET POST #1574 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1574 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 173 secrets from Secret Submission Post #225.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 - repeats ], [ 1 - unreadable ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[violent-aki.livejournal.com]

I'm going to take this with a grain of salt and assume, just for a minute, that OP is completely serious and that I understand what they're trying to say. That said:

You do realize that it's possible to be in fandom and still be a productive member of society, right? And I'm not just talking Homestuck, here, I mean everything. Fandom is a hobby, just like collecting stamps or building model airplanes. So yes, while I do spend a lot of my free time on the internet, reading fic, working on cosplay, what have you, I also spend a good majority of time attending classes to earn a degree, working a part-time job to save up money, and hanging out with non-fandom friends in a public, social atmosphere. And I'm sure there are plenty of others here who could say the same.

I just really resent the idea that being in fandom = complete and total loser with no life or future. Okay, perhaps a few select individuals fit this model, but for the most part we are all just pretty much normal human beings, thanks.

[(Anonymous)]

This so hard. You said everything I wanted to and more.

What happened to people assuming fandom = hobby and NOTHING more than that? D: Yikes!

[brandiweed.livejournal.com]

Never heard the venerable FIAWOL vs. FIJAGDH argument?

[(Anonymous)]

It's easier to focus on those for whom it is more than a hobby :(

[(Anonymous)]

And you know what? Some people in fandom are not "productive members of society" (whatever the heck that means) or don't have friends outside of fandom, and live healthy, enjoyable lives. I hate the implication that this is only an okay activity if you keep it balanced with other things, while it's fine to devote your life to more vanilla hobbies.

(And you probably didn't mean half of what I'm seeing in your post. The attitude just really bugs me.)

[violent-aki.livejournal.com]

Oh no no, I wasn't implying that at all. I know plenty of people whose lives do more or less revolve around fandom, and they're still healthy, sane individuals, and that's okay too! I didn't mean to imply otherwise, sorry it came off that way. I was just speaking from my personal perspective more than anything else and trying to make the point that no, Homestuck (and fandom in general) is not "dangerous" and did not "ruin" me, and probably never will.

[(Anonymous)]

No worries, then.

[(Anonymous)]

A+, you said what I was trying to say except it would be a lie for me, because I barely manage to take care of myself, let alone important adult things like classes or a job. But that's NOT because I read Homestuck. :D

[(Anonymous)]

The OP didn't say all of fandom is like that, he/she just said that fandom tries way too hard to legitimize people's social reclusion, which is true. Fandom tries hard to be inclusive to everyone, but because of this can be a bit too permissive of things. Trying to say as much gets one mauled - the idea that perhaps some things shouldn't be accepted, that there IS a line in the sand one can cross to become TOO pathetic and obsessed, is met with monocles popping left and right. The worst thing one can be seen as in fandom is someone who is judgmental - it's a black mark, and is visciously shamed by the whole culture. So when the hermits come out in droves to justify their creepy hermit obsessiveness, any effort to point out that is not healthy is met with cries of 'It's not hurting you! It makes me happy, WHY YOU JUDGE MEEEEE????'

[(Anonymous)]

Perhaps because they have a good reason for shaming you; i. e. you're a fuckwad? You have outside society to laugh at those who you feel are obsessive or asocial; you don't need fandom to do it too.

All your worry about "health" (I haven't read any studies about it, and neither have you) is just a figleaf to dress up your own attitude of superiority to "those people" in the guise of concern. If people living an alternative lifestyle are happy with it, more power to them; there's no reason for them to conform to your desires.

[(Anonymous)]

The reason it's important to shame extreme antisocial behaviour and intense indulgence to the point of obsession with the internet is because it's not good for people. Many studies have shown we're social creatures, beyond the fact that civilization itself is proof of how we are social beings. No creature meant to be solo forms family groups, or travels in packs, or bands together in order to spread resources more evenly across a group. Those are ALL traits of social animals.

Beyond that, often people indulge in too much internet in order to escape something. Internet addiction is a REAL addiction, like gambling addiction and sex addiction, and all this hand-waving away of the seriousness of excessive internet usage, and using the internet as one primary form of interaction with the world, serves as an effort to try and change what is an addiction into something socially acceptable. Addictions are BAD for you.

"If people living an alternative lifestyle are happy with it, more power to them; there's no reason for them to conform to your desires."

The same could be said of someone smoking crack, but no one would dare try to argue that being a crack addict is healthy or ok, and that people addicted to crack should continue indulging if it 'means so much to them'. Why? Because even though the drugs feel good in the short term, they're masking some greater problems and almost always drive the person into an even deeper cycle of shame and sadness until they self-destruct. But they have trouble breaking the cycle, because it makes them so happy in the short term.

Also, the fact that fandom is too permissive is why so many truly fucked up people gravitate to fandom, and why the rest of the world views us as a bunch of masturbating whackos. Maybe if we grew a pair and realized that hey, the rest of society might be right about the whole 'not accepting pedophiles into our ranks' thing. Frankly, the idea that we should accept things because 'outside society' doesn't is nuts. Sometimes, outside society is RIGHT.

[(Anonymous)]

It is true that humans as a group are social creatures, but the same is not true of every individual. In every age, there have been people drawn to asocial callings; note that we have words like "hermit" in the first place, as opposed to having to use a recently invented or borrowed term to describe such a condition. Consider the monastic tradition in many major world religions, for instance, which often had as much to do with a preference for solitude and dislike of society as anything to do with a love of a God.

Similarly, a gambling addiction will cost you your home, a sex addiction will get you STDs and failed relationships, and an internet addiction will cost you... what, your offline friends? But people alter their circles of friendship often in life, and if it becomes an "addiction" they clearly didn't value their past friendships anyway.

As I see it, it's an alternative society, similar to many intentional communities throughout history, and people are drawn to it more often than not because they prefer it for whatever reason to their local society. Perhaps some do so to escape personal problems, but for me it was an escape from a culture I simply didn't enjoy participating in.

I've known many people who lived predominately offline lives who, yes, have been fairly morose people, some who have even self-destructed. But by no means has this proven exclusive to those connected deeply to fandom, or even particularly common among them. Shame, on the other hand, is a matter of how much you value the opinions of people not involved in fandom, and those more involved have tended to feel less shame, not more. Furthermore, many things which people have been shamed for historically now have become reason to cast judgment not on the shamed, but on the society doing the shaming.

And personally, I think fandom has value as a refuge for the downtrodden. It's a lot more important to me that we become a place where unusual people can gravitate than that we join in whatever moral panic is going on outside in a fundamentally doomed quest for societal approval.

[(Anonymous)]

That is a fantastic mental image.

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn't, but I was really shocked about the f!s post yesterday.
I think it's more than a few select individuals.