fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1583 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1583 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 83 secrets from Secret Submission Post #226.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I think Moffat has a pretty clear idea in his head, but I'm still waiting for evidence that he's actually plotted out their timelines completely. "Going backwards" is too simple, it doesn't answer it. If they were only going backwards there would be no need for diaries, because tehy'd never be on the same page (literally, har har). I've been meaning to rewatch the Library episodes, but I do think even now that I like River she'd ruffle my feathers a bit for being kind of dismissive of Ten (who is my favourite, so my feathers get ruffled kind of easily in that regard).

I think if Moffat had waited, he would have at very least had the advantage of knowing who was actually going to play "her" Doctor, lol. I feel bad for River because now that I like her it seems like a shame that her last episodes are doomed to never really make that much sense -- I don't buy that Ten looks drastically younger than Eleven, not only because David Tennant is much older but also because Ten was very sad by s4 in a way that Eleven has never been thusfar. Plus, she seems to think Ten was at the Byzantium with her when we know for a fact that was Eleven. If Moffat had waited, he a) wouldn't have been introducing her in the midst of the Rose and Donna drama that was the focus of the season, and b) would have been able to give her an episode with better continuity.

Yeah, I've never taken it as literally going backwards, because if it was, we would have already seen him give her the sonic screwdriver. I understand what you mean about her being dismissive of the Doctor, though. That's always been a pet peeve of mine. I had trouble liking Romana at first for this same reason, as well as with River, even though Ten is not my favorite.

You make some very good points about waiting. Given that we don't see River again with Ten, she can't have met him before, therefore she must recognize him from a cheat sheet the doctor gave her. So why wouldn't she know that he was younger than "her" doctor and therefore assume that nothing in her journal had happened to him yet? However, I almost wonder (and I'm a latecomer to the fandom, so feel free to correct me if you know better than I) if Moffat didn't know yet that a) Tennant would be leaving soon and b) he would be taking over soon, and so was expecting to be able to do a few more Ten story lines with her.

I will admit that most days I forget that Smith is the youngest doctor yet. I feel he comes off much older and more crotchety, where Tennant occasionally came off like a puppy. I will also admit to occasionally pining after the might-have-been of Kate Winslet!River (though I have nothing against the actress we got)

Given that we don't see River again with Ten, she can't have met him before, therefore she must recognize him from a cheat sheet the doctor gave her. So why wouldn't she know that he was younger than "her" doctor and therefore assume that nothing in her journal had happened to him yet?

I'd need to rewatch S4, but I assumed that Ten and River met perhaps once or twice off-screen before he regenerated, but (obvs) after Silence in the Library. I get the impression that they would've met not long after the ending of S4, if I remember River's reaction to Donna correctly, as I don't think it's something that Eleven would necessarily discuss.

As a result, River would know Ten, but not one as young as the Ten she later-in-her-timeline meets in Silence in the Library -- and events that occur at the end of S4, I suppose, would account for her comment regarding his 'eyes' looking older. Or whatever it was.

I don't like this explanation though. It's lazy on Moffat's part to just assume that they had adventures offscreen even though he's never mentioned them again and we've never seen them. I also find it pretty out of character for Ten to track her down, and anyway some deleted dialogue in the Angels episode implies that they directly follow the Library episodes for the Doctor.

Yeah, the dismissive thing -- I am not sure if that's really the word I mean, but basically just the way she spends most of the episodes being like 'ugh, you are not as good as my Doctor". Which is understandable, from her POV, but as someone who does like Ten, and especially in s4 when we didn't know anything about ~her~ Doctor, it was kind of like "girlllll".

LOL RIGHT? Even if she knew he was youngest then why did she assume they'd done stuff? It doesn't make any sense. The screwdriver she has never existed, unless we later see Eleven make one specifically for her, because Ten's screwdriver never had red settings and stuff.

So why wouldn't she know that he was younger than "her" doctor and therefore assume that nothing in her journal had happened to him yet?
I think Moffat would have known he was taking over, but probably not that David Tennant was leaving. (It was definitely before that was announced officially, but I'm not sure when TPTB knew.) I also am pretty sure I've heard that Moffat was intending to cast someone older as Eleven, and just ended up being super impressed by Matt Smith, so he probably may have assumed it was safe to say that Eleven would be older than David Tennant.

I never really thought about her thinking that Ten wasn't as good as "her" doctor, but perhaps I should have. As it stood, I kept (and keep, sometimes) thinking that that sort of attitude was a bad foundation for a relationship, which has kept me very DO NOT WANT as far as she ship goes.

And it wasn't as if she couldn't assume that she had done stuff with this doctor, until the end when she realized this was the end of the road for her. She could have assumed that just because this was the first time she'd seen Ten that it didn't mean it wasn't the first time Ten had seen her. But she also would have know that the adventures she would remember wouldn't be the same ones she would remember, as for her, they hadn't happened yet. And I always thought that the screwdriver had to be made for her, given the device that was hidden inside it that "saved" her. But the way she described the time when he gave it to her gave me the impression that it was a doctor much more familiar with River than we have yet seen. Which made me feel better for River at the end of the last episode where she was looking bereft. "Don't worry River, it's not all downhill from here!"

She has a few lines that make it relatively explicit -- like she has this monologue about how great the Doctor is, and he says "I am the Doctor!" and she says "yeah, some day". She also has a line about how he's "not done yet" I think. I mean, I get where she's coming from, and I think many companions would react similarly, but it was off-putting to me as a viewer at the time and I think it would still be a little off-putting to me now, since I wind up feeling like ":( but River, Ten is awesome!" At the time I sort of interpreted it like you did -- "wtf, they barely even like each other and they have no chemistry!" I think she works much better with Eleven, though, so that's okay.

...I remember that now. I also remember being annoyed by her attitude, because while I do think the Doctor matured, his base personality hasn't changed that much over the years. It couldn't what with changing the actor every few years. I don't think Ten is any more awesome than One in any way other than what comes down to personal taste. This is a lesson all companions who are there for a regeneration have had to learn, let alone his wife. /rant

The flirting between Eleven and River does make me absurdly happy, even if other things squick me.

[ SECRET POST #1583 ]

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