fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1583 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1583 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 83 secrets from Secret Submission Post #226.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I feel you on the disconnect (it's one of the reasons I don't connect with Eleven-era Who so well even when I adore the writing), but I'm baffled as to where you're getting that view of Moffat's attitude. Moff's a fanboy. He knows Who canon back to front and adores it, and he's always the first to jump in and defend RTD's writing when someone tries to pit them against each other. He was also under pressure to establish himself as head writer of a franchise that'd been RTD's brainchild ever since the reboot. If anything, I think the lack of references to previous continuity is him overcompensating and clamping down way too hard on his fanboy tendencies, trying to win over the non-niche general audiences who (he thinks) want new/original adventures rather than in-jokes and rehashes of RTD.

I'm not trying to claim the balance of new to old isn't off, because it is. I'm just not convinced the motives behind it are anything so sinister.

To me, it's always felt like he was competing with RTD here. It's always come off to me as though Moffat just despises anything he hasn't personally written for the series -- the way he sidelined current companions when he wrote during RTD's era, the way he refuses to reference anything from RTD's era now that he's showrunner (let alone Old Who), and so on. Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but you can't deny his obvious distaste for Rose in the episodes he wrote when she was on the show... and he sidelines Martha in much the same way in "Blink" (it's impressive, really, how he managed to noticeably sideline the Doctor's companion in a Doctor-lite episode).

A large part of series five consisted of Moffat basically "one-upping" things that RTD had already done, stealing directly from RTD's work in a lot of ways. Part of this is just that Moffat is obviously not an original writer - I literally have never seen the man do anything honestly original. Part of it is that I think he wanted to establish his Doctor as "better," his companion as "better," and so on.

It came off to me as nasty. I don't follow the interviews, so I don't know what he's said really (other than his vile sexist and misogynist comments I've seen), but the way it came off in the show was particularly... nasty to me. As though he simply couldn't stand anyone else writing for the show and so he had to shun everything that came before him.

Compete? No. Set himself apart? Yes, undoubtedly, lest he leave himself open to accusations of being a copycat or a pale imitation or what-have-you. And while he did tend to work in a slightly different frame of reference from the other writers during RTD's tenure, I don't see how that translates to despising anything. Honestly, the only despising I can see is the way you apparently detest Moffat on a visceral level, and while it's fair to not like his stuff or feel like he gets too wrapped up in his own cleverness, it seems a bit weird to hate him so much that you read hatred into his motives.

Yes, undoubtedly, lest he leave himself open to accusations of being a copycat or a pale imitation or what-have-you.

Well he's been reusing so many plot devices and themes that people have been calling him a copycat/unoriginal anyway.

-Amy is the (fiery redheaded) bride that ends up in the TARDIS on the eve of her wedding.
-One woman being the key to saving the universe because her life has been being manipulated by alien/spacey stuff her whole life.
-Little children calling phones that they shouldn't be able to call/creepy child voices.
-People in spacesuits creeping around and chasing after people
-Monsters that you can't look away from or they'll disappear
-The Doctor fake-dying
-symbols scrawled on the skin in black ink

So his attempts to really break away from the past have failed since he's pretty much recycling everything. Not that is bad, per se. But it's really noticeable.

Yep, and I'll add a little to the list while I have open the review I did of stuff Moffat stole from RTD, and a couple of tropes he just overuses a ton:

- Bringing Rory back to life (Jaaaack-), the "all the power in the universe" thing, was straight out of the Bad Wolf episodes
- The Year That Never Was idea
- The "waiting for the Doctor for a few bajillion years" thing was Jack Harkness's schtick well before it was Rory's
- "You can't see it, so it's scary!"
- "The planets are disappearing!" Yeah, RTD already did that Moff.
- River Song allegedly being based on The Time-Traveler's Wife
- Reusing his own aliens and monsters come the fuck on now. Let the Weeping Angels die, Moffat. Let them die.
- Characters with no apparent family or "grounding" in any particular place or time (which goes along with what I said above in this thread... that Moffat's characters aren't ever relatable because you never know where they're coming from or anything about their home-life before the Doctor)

And on, and on... if he wanted to be original, he should have been. But I'm fairly convinced Moffat isn't capable of originality by now -- he's never shown himself to be.

And re: Amy, I've always said she's basically a compilation of all the worst traits of the Doctor's other New Who companions, lol. Like, seriously, she's a much less tolerable Donna.

Yea I said somewhere else on the thread that she started out as a shit remake of Donna and that's why I hated her so fiercely last season. She's kinda moving away from that slowly (and the whole story isn't focused on her) so I'm slowly coming around to her being in the TARDIS.

Yeah, I... still hate her, lol. I can tolerate her as long as she doesn't try to sexually assault the Doctor again, but only just tolerate. She's no longer the one driving me to consider not watching the show anymore, anyway-- that honor goes to River Song. :\

In all honesty, I don't see River being as "I know something you don't know" in the same way anymore. Before it was like "OMG SOMETHING REALLY INTENSE AND DRAMATIC IS GONNA HAPPEN TO YOU IN THE FUTURE AND I KNOW BUT I CAN'T TELL." Now it's more of a teasing way. I'm sure the Doctor is clever enough to figure out that she'll most likely being a romantic partner of some sort. She's really only dropped teasing sexual lines to him this season. It's only to other characters and to us that she reveals the really dramatic and intense sense of what's to come. With the Doctor, she's just playful and flirty. Before time, it was all "OMG DON'T LOOK IN THE JOURNAL! I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT'S INSIDE!" But this season, they're comparing notes and stuff. I think the melodrama in her interactions with the Doctor himself are toned down from past seasons.

idk, either way it annoys the living hell out of me, lol. I hate the sexuality and the "flirting," I hate the "spoilers," and all of it. Some of the melodrama has toned down, but all it's left in its wake, IMO, is more obnoxiousness-- something I honestly thought wasn't possible considering how horrible I found her when she first appeared! :\

I will say, from the perspective of someone who has very much been enjoying these seasons, that I also noticed what I've been calling "see, this is how you do (x)."

I think the Amy coming on to Eleven was supposed to parallel the Rose/Doctor ship. I think Rory/Amy was supposed to parallel Mickey/Rose. I could go on, but I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here. I also feel that in the TARDIS redesign, the destruction of the sonic screwdriver, and a myriad of other ways, Moffat is trying to wipe the RTD era off the map. (Not all of Who, though. To me Eleven's personality harkens back to the older (younger) doctors in a way Nine and Ten didn't (I'm not complaining about this - Time War, after all).)(Parenthesis abuse!) In some ways this makes me laugh. I have a bit of a rabid hate-on for late Ten. In some ways this makes be sad. I miss Rose/Jack/Martha/Mickey/Donna. I wish we could have references to some, and appearances from others.

This is all to say that I see it too.

[ SECRET POST #1583 ]

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