Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-05-04 07:46 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-05-04 07:46 pm
[ SECRET POST #1583 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 83 secrets from Secret Submission Post #226.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
no subject
There is nothing to argue. You are of the opinion that my list is desperate, which is objective. I don't see how it is desperate, which is also objective. And yet...you want me to list an example from every episode? How would that be any less "desperate"?
People do that sometimes, say things they don't mean.
Ah, no. Remember when you said that I was speculating? I wasn't. This right here, however, is speculation. Unless you can back it up with something from the source, you are just scrambling for justification for your very biased opinion when there is none to be had. If you turn a blind eye to what is specifically stated in the show, then you really don't have any ground to stand on.
Well if the people making the show say something about their own show then it must be true...so when RTD thinks goes on about how great all his episodes are, the it's wrong of me to disagree with that too I suppose?
...really? Again, whether something is good or bad is an opinion. You can disagree with that all you want. But when the creator of two characters tells you what their motives/feelings are, I don't see how you can argue that. Unless, again, you back it up with material from the scripts. The actors embody the characters. If they tell you what their motivations were when they played the characters, you can't really argue with that. Well, you could. But it would be pretty useless to do so.
Teach me more about feminism! You're so insightful!
I really wish I had the time to do so.
Aw, that's so cute.
Thanks!
Or maybe try and learn something about class issues. I don't doubt Rose can be seen as a feminist character, though I disagree, but there are some unpleasant elements of classism in the way she treats Jackie and Mickey
I know enough to see that there isn't any there. Rose is of the same class as Jackie and Mickey.
Your inability to take cues from (or your blatant disregard for the material in) the show makes me a little worried about you. So I am just going to assume you're a troll. Again, I'm playing right into your hands, but the points you are making are just -so- absurd.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2011-05-15 10:55 pm (UTC)(link)Your inability to take cues from (or your blatant disregard for the material in) the show makes me a little worried about you.
Seriously? You're worried because I interpret a television show differently to you? That's a cause for concern in your eyes?
Really, do leave, and do read something about what classism actually is and how it works because your comments here just reveal your astounding ignorance and until you've got a grasp of the basics, it's just pointless trying to converse. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Look at the difference between how you're defending Rose on feminist grounds and how you're defending her against classism. Fandom is happy to talk about the former and doesn't have a clue about the latter, and this is a perfect demonstration of that.
You say "Rose is of the same class as Jackie and Mickey" so it can't be classist, which is a ridiculous defense. We are raised in a classist society, the same way we're raised in a sexist one. Women can be sexist to one another, something you yourself pointed out earlier, but you don't even grasp that class can work the same way.
So I am just going to assume you're a troll.
Well, I'm anonymous and disagree with you so I must be trolling, mustn't I? But, sure, go ahead and call me a troll if that makes you feel better. It couldn't possibly be that I genuinely think Rose Tyler is a dreadful excuse for a so-called heroine, could it? That would be impossible!
But you're the one who's reached the stage of petty name-calling here, so really, you're trolling me.
no subject
No, what concerns me is that you are ignoring blatant statements made in the show. The Doctor says that Rose performed a great feat by becoming the Bad Wolf? No, it was all the Tardis! The Doctor says that he believes in Rose? No, clearly he didn't mean what he said that day!
Really, do leave, and do read something about what classism actually is and how it works because your comments here just reveal your astounding ignorance and until you've got a grasp of the basics, it's just pointless trying to converse.
Just...stop. As someone who grew up "poor" (I immigrated to this country with my family, lived in a dreadful studio apartment with cardboard boxes for furniture, raised by mother working twelve hours a day after my father left us), I know what it is like to have to work for a living and not have many resources at my disposal. Yet I still managed to volunteer my time for various causes throughout high school and beyond. As a writer for my University's newspaper, when I cover articles about food banks and food drives, these events are often spearheaded by people of the lower socioeconomic sphere who still want to "take a stand" in the world and do what they can for their community. Yes, these are anecdotal cases, but if the opinions of these people are anything like my own, the lower classes do not need nor want you to defend or pity them and protect them against “classist” statements in television shows which are intended to be inspirational to children, empowering them to believe they can make a change in the world (irregardless of their class).
Of course, this isn't what we were originally talking about at all. You said that all Rose wanted was to be with the Doctor. I said, “no, look...here she is making a point of saying she wants to be with the Doctor because she wants to stand up for justice (which traveling with him allows her).” Your reply was, “So what, that's classist!!1one” It seems to me that you are just scrambling for anything that makes Rose look bad to justify your dislike of her. The only thing that was classist in Season One was when Jackie told Rose that she was getting “airs and graces” by working in a nice department store. Or that Mickey assumed that Rose thought she was better than him because she wanted a different life. These are classic examples for someone “wanting to go above their station.” If you had perhaps chosen a better example to argue about classism in the show, I wouldn't have been so dismissive.
It couldn't possibly be that I genuinely think Rose Tyler is a dreadful excuse for a so-called heroine, could it? That would be impossible!
I think I made a point of saying you are welcome to hate Rose Tyler. What I disagree with is trying to label her as something she isn't to perpetuate and justify that dislike.
But, sure, go ahead and call me a troll if that makes you feel better.
I'm calling you a troll because you were making, frankly, outlandish statements.
I thought you were leaving? You did take your time in that last reply to tell me that this time you were absolutely, definitely leaving.
Really, this is the most sensible thing you've said. I should have left a long time ago. It's totally sad that I said I was leaving, but came back. I lose at the internet. Go ahead and have the last word.