[ SECRET POST #1612 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1612 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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TRIGGER WARNING FOR RAPE

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 31 secrets from Secret Submission Post #230.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

21. http://i52.tinypic.com/21e5k3l.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

Wha.....I'm confused.

[loracarol.livejournal.com]

I think OP is saying that, no matter what a character they like does (specifically rape in this instance), they don't stop liking the character, but they can't squee over them any more because they're assumed to be rape apologists. They don't think rape is a good thing, but they still love the character.

I think. -_-;;

[(Anonymous)]

You sound like a rape apologist. Rape makes for good ~character growth~, I'm sure.

[oflittlebrain.livejournal.com]

Um. Rapists can certainly be good, interesting characters. Characters who are interesting to read about are not always fine, upstanding citizens.

[karel]

Yeah, kinda sucks.

[(Anonymous)]

I understand and I get you, OP. I feel the same way. There are several characters who I like and find interesting, but then they turn into a rapist in canon and it makes me feel sick. I'm still invested in their characters and still like them, but they're rapists wtf.

I can't turn off my interest in a character but liking a rapist makes me feel so dirty. It's even worse when they're just randomly turned into a rapist or it has no bearing on the plot, it's just something that happens out of no where. WTFFFF.

[damnated.livejournal.com]

Wait what. You would never condone the raping? Am I reading something wrong here? Either that or your morals are seriously fucked up.

[oflittlebrain.livejournal.com]

Am I reading something wrong here?

I think you're conflating "condone" and "condemn" lol
I should hope that none of us would condone rape

[(Anonymous)]

Fandom just wants to be preached to these days. Characters must never say or do anything they don't approve of.

[ouo]

I suppose it depends on the fandom, but I think you'd be able to continue to show your love for the character so long as you make it clear that you don't condone what they've done. There's a huge difference between thinking a character is interesting and thinking that everything they do is right or good, and other people in your fandoms should realize that.

[penumbra.livejournal.com]

I don't know if this is what you're talking about but it kind of drives me up the wall that fandom will forgive murder but not rape. I actually think that's a really problematic attitude to take -- that rape is 'worse' than murder, as if it irrevocably destroys a person, as if rape survivors can't live full and successful lives after their rape. That's generally my issue with this -- the way characters are considered 'redeemable' as long as they've "only" murdered and tortured people as long as they've never raped anybody, as if murder and torture don't destroy lives.

TW for torture methods

[karel]

Yeah, can't even lie. That bugs me a lot, too. I mean, when did non-sexual torture stop being a big deal? Isolation? Mutilation? Being locked into painful poses for days on end? Deprivation of basic needs? Psychological torture? Watching others tortured in your stead? All of the above? I'm not going to say one's worse than the other, but it's at least capable of being on the same level.

[hello-ilu.livejournal.com]

It's definitely something that bothers me now that I think about it, but maybe- like, I know personally I've seen way more torture/murder in mainstream entertainment than rape? And so often there it's villains or faceless mooks being killed (and even sometimes tortured) by the heroes so in that context it often becomes... acceptable or at least understandable (uh in-story at the least, and often outside the story too gdi rereading is my friend)? I can't think of any sci-fi/fantasy books I read even as a child where there wasn't murder and/or some form of torture, whereas I don't think I was exposed to rape in fiction til I was quite a bit older. LOL IDK THIS IS ALL ANECDOTAL AND GUESSING SOB but this is a Conversation I Would Like To Have so uh ;A;

oh man I'm sorry if this is like.... horribly rambly/stupid or somehow offensive, it doesn't seem that way to me but I'm tired :|a

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, the thing about that is as follows:

1. It's a slim few people who think torture and murder are okay in any circumstances. The same cannot be said for rape. Perhaps in fandom, yes, but in society at large, rape is largely considered a less hurtful crime than murder. Not only that, but perpetrators are rarely held accountable for their actions, since victim-blaming abounds. Fandom hypercompensates in this regard for this purpose.

2. Torture and murder aren't implicitly gendered acts. Yes, it's true that men are capable of being raped, and yes, torture and murder can play into gendered abuse and hate crimes. But the fact is that rape is nigh-universally acknowledged as a way to victimize an oppressed gender (maybe not in those words). For this reason, those of us who are into feminist activism, or even just women at large, find it a more sensitive topic. This proceeds into my third, and perhaps most important point...

3. Torture and murder aren't matters of personal impact for many of us. It's a slim few of us who will ever be brutally tortured. Those of us who are murdered... are not going to be around to be traumatized by the experience, however callous it is to phrase it like that :| One in three women, though, will be sexually assaulted sometime in her life. And the threat thereof affects 100% of women in every aspect of our daily lives. So when we see a character rape someone, especially when it's a character we liked, we are struck by the potential reality (or actual reality, in the case of many) of someone we love doing something like that to us. It's... upsetting, to say the least.

[yucari.livejournal.com]

Characters who commit unforgivable acts can be really complex and fascinating in their psychology. It's understandable that many people would be drawn to them, whether it be because of or despite the horrible things they've done.

On the flip side, though, a lot of people don't have the privilege of overlooking the nasty parts of a character, especially if they hit them on a personal level. And it can be very hurtful to see others implicitly "forgive" such acts by favoring a character. :\

You're free to do whatever you want; fandom hasn't got you at gunpoint dictating how it's appropriate for you to squee. However, if you prefer to gloss over the bad things they've done in gushing over the good, then I can't say I personally respect your approach.

[elialshadowpine]

OT: Lisa Frank icon!!! :D

[danaphilip.livejournal.com]

It's okay to still like a character without condoning every. action. they do.

[magnetic-regina.livejournal.com]

... do characters you like turn out to be rapists often?

[(Anonymous)]

This made me laugh.

[kestrellan.livejournal.com]

Purely out of interest, what examples of this are there? Where an interesting and even likable character commits rape?

The only example that immediately came to my mind was Kennit from Liveship Traders (unlike many fans, though, I hate him). Then I remembered Spike from BtVS, though that was fortunately only attempted rape. And, yeah...still love him :/

[shahrizai.livejournal.com]

Takumi from Nana is another one. He seems like the typical tall, dark, silent and handsome dude, which totally pings fangirl radars. Then he date rapes his girlfriend. :( But I'm still very interested in his character. One of the reasons is what he considers to be good and bad, but that's getting into spoiler territory.

[(Anonymous)]

Clavel from the Aleutian trilogy, possibly?

Kind of a border case because it wasn't intended as rape, but both parties view it that way after the fact, and Clavel spends the rest of the series fumblingly trying to atone.

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

some of the most fascinating fictional characters are characters who are not necessarily "good". They're complex and have a lot of "issues" and a lot of psychology behind their character, when they're written well, and I find them fascinating too.

Does that mean I want to go on a date with them and have their love child, or even leave them alone for 10 seconds with anyone I give a damn about?

Absolutely not.

Being intrigued/interested by a character does NOT mean approving of everything they do, ever.

*sigh*

I get it, anon. And I sympathize.

[(Anonymous)]

I get it... I think... But what really bugs me is the "sorry" you threw in there. It makes the whole post seem condescending. "Sorry, people... But I just don't let RAPE get to me." Hope it wasn't intentional, but you never can be too sure when it comes to topics like this.