[ SECRET POST #1613 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1613 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


01.



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02.
[the Boondocks]


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03.
[Tales of Vesperia]


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04.
[Emilie Autumn/Transformice]


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05.


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06.
[Amnesia]


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07.


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08.


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09.
[Madlax]


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10.
[Being Human]


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11.
[Final Fantasy/RP]


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12.
[Knights of the Old Republic]


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13.
[Psychoville]


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14.
[The Flaming Lips]


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15.
[Young Justice]


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16.
[Hetalia]


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17.


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18.















[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]















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19. [SPOILERS for Hawaii Five-O]



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20. [SPOILERS for Bones]



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21. [SPOILERS for Bones]



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22. [SPOILERS for Surprise of Suzumiya Haruhi]



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23. [SPOILERS for Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides]



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24. [SPOILERS for something idk they didnt say what]



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25. [SPOILERS for Pirates of the Caribbean]



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26. [SPOILERS for Game of Thrones]



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27. [SPOILERS for Portal 2]
















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: pages, secrets from Secret Submission Post #.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeats ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

He's like an anti-Joss Whedon or something...

Joss Whedon has his own slew of sexist problems. In some ways it's worse because he really believes he's feminist. It's more in line to the problems of moe-fetishism in Japan (tiny fighter ballerinas and emotional torture porn and the entirety of Dollhouse) but since a standard American audience isn't as knowledgeable to that sort of objectification he's not called out on it enough.

[hagiologic.livejournal.com]

I... think that was the other anon's point. Joss talks a lot of good talk about his feminism, but has produced some really problematic stuff; Moffat keeps spouting sexist drivel yet has written some awesome female characters. (I personally love both Amy and (especially) River, but I do see elements of his sexism in the way he writes them.)

[(Anonymous)]

....I think you're right! My mistake, I clearly misread that. Whoops!

[(Anonymous)]

Funnily enough, that's kind of what I was referring to. Moffat has clearly sexist views yet his female characters are (mostly) well-rounded (in my opinion, that is), whereas Whedon goes on about being feminist and his characters don't portray that.

It's kind of unfortunate that for a work to be seen as 'feminist' all it has to include is women actually doing things :-( Female characters actually being human individuals is such a great surprise most of the time...

(I'm not really into Japanese fandoms so the comment about 'moes' is interesting; I'm always intrigued about how sexism presents itself in different cultures. Although I'm still waiting to discover a non-sexist society... Anyone..?)

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah I only just realize I misread you, sorry about that!

With Moffat I firmly believe that he needs his wife to sit with him in interviews because from what I understand (from Coupling at least) she'd hit him over the head and tell him to shut up before he embarrasses himself. Personally I'm just relieved he's a good enough writer to be able to portray characters first and any sort of gendered opinions as an afterthought, because if you write all your characters as fully-rounded regardless of gender than his sexism stays out of his writing for the most part. ....crazy theory opinions is go!

(Japan's moe-culture is really interesting and disheartening at the same time. It's actually ironic how at first glance a lot of anime/manga production can be seen from a feminist POV and pass the bechdel test with flying colors (a series with a large or even exclusive female cast isn't uncommon, for example), but it's a different sort of sexist filter where it's pandered to a male audience for emotional objectification as much as physical. Either way the end-results is women are still sold as a fantasy where their personality flaws are depicted as a turn-on, and can be very Your Mileage May Vary according to how aware of the moe-culture one is.)

[(Anonymous)]

No worries about mis-reading what I wrote, I didn't make it very clear and I'm sure we've both met people who think Whedon is beyond perfection. ^_^

I think quite a few male writers write better female characters when they don't set out to make them female and so don't fall into cliche. Ripley from Alien is a good example; it's disheartening how the default mode of many writers is male, but I take whatever good female characters I can get.

(I don't think I've ever considered emotional-objectification before... I've really only been peripherally aware of sexism in Japan due to the school-girl stereotypes and so forth, and although female-exclusive casts intrigue me, the whole sold-as-fantasy aspect does not. I might have to google this, but with safesearch on :P)

[(Anonymous)]

it's disheartening how the default mode of many writers is male, but I take whatever good female characters I can get.

MTE. Still not there yet but, hey, I'll take whatever I can get while fighting the good fight.

(Not to say that moe-shows are bad. A lot of them are--ooooh a lot of them are--but what is considered "moe" is so subjected and moe tropes are so prevalent it's hard to find a show that doesn't have some effect of it. Some shows are made to be nothing but male-pandered fap fantasies while others use it as moderate fanservice. The recent anime Puella Magi Madoka Magica is all all-female cast which actually intentionally subverts the moe genre in genius troll-tastic ways and it's an amazingly well told story on top of it... but, again, controversial and YMMV depending on how aware you are of what the show is subverting. A lot of the time you'll find yourself seeing some anime/manga being accidentally feminist as much as it can be intentionally sexist.

Feel free to look into terms like "tsundere," "kuudere," "yamato nadeshiko," "loli," and so on, juuuust to start you off. This TV Tropes link sums it up too: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatDoYouMeanItsNotForLittleGirls )

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks for the link, although now you've linked me to TV tropes I may be gone quite a while ;-)

Tell my family I loved them!

[diorama23.livejournal.com]

I find Japanese animes and manga, which is all I read and the only thing I can comment on does really good female friendships. So that is one good thing about it despite issues which I honestly don't think is any better or worse than Western media.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not going to say Joss doesn't have some problematic themes but his female characters are very well rounded, more well rounded then Moffat's characters from what I've seen.

I don't find everything Moffat writes inherently sexist but he's also crap at character, Joss is much better at character then Moffat is.

That's partially why I can forgive Joss for the problematic issues, because he can write very real and convincing women, and for all the crap he gets at least he does things like support equality now and fights for women's rights.

I'm not sure I have that confidence in Moffat :/

[(Anonymous)]

That's partially why I can forgive Joss for the problematic issues, because he can write very real and convincing women,

I disagree, but that's a can of worms I'm not really willing to essay about right now. Besides, Cracked said everything I would say already: http://www.cracked.com/article/166_5-reasons-it-sucks-being-joss-whedon-fan/

[(Anonymous)]

LOL, that Cracked article.

Hard to agree when I don't necessarily agree with the premise that Joss' two most artistically successful shows are Firefly and Angel (is this objective fact now?) or that "Joss shoots his actresses most lovingly when they're wet and crying and curled up in the fetal position." Guess I watched different shows then this author.

Also hard to take them seriously when they keep ragging on Eliza Dushku and calling her an "actress" in quotes. She may not be the best ever but the level of blind hatred she receives is really off-putting.

[karel]

because he can write very real and convincing women

For real. I can actually relate to this characters, which is a very nice and rare thing, to me. Every writer is going to do problematic things. It is the nature of writing and storytelling.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah that's exactly where I was coming from, I can relate to Joss's characters, things they've felt I've also felt. And even when things were supernatural in nature I could relate the the overall theme of what the character was going through.

When I bond with characters that way I am in it all the way for better or worse, because they are real people. It's especially great to have female characters who are written that way because you're right, it really is rare.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

Pretty much exactly what I came here to say. Totally disagree with the opinion that Joss' characters aren't relatable or well rounded and Moffat's are. I've liked season 5 and 6 well enough but Moffat's biggest weakness as a writer is character development, imo.