fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1620 ]

[ SECRET POST #1620 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1620 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae wo Bokutachi wa Mada Shiranai]

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02.

[Hetalia]

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03.

[Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha]

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04.

[Michael Silas/Asiel Hardison, Lady Gaga's dancers]

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05.

[Tiger & Bunny]

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06.

[Evangelion]

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07.

[Zero Punctuation]

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08.

[The Catherine Tate Show]

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09.

[Grimgrimoire]

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10.

[wonderful days, guyver, cowboy bebop, texhnolyze, togainu no chi, black lagoon, samurai champloo, aishiteruze baby, tenjo tenge]

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11.

[X-Men: First Class]

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12.

[Tales of the Abyss]

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13.

[Human Target]

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14.

[A Song of Ice and Fire]

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15.

[Masterchef Australia]

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16.

[Sucker Punch]

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17.

[Mystique]

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18.

[Workaholics]

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19.

[Mark Reads]

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20.

[Jamie Campbell Bower ]

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21.

[Hey Arnold!]

[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

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22. [SPOILERS for Homestuck]

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23. [SPOILERS for Gintama]

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24. [SPOILERS for Kamen Rider Kabuto]

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25. [SPOILERS for Loveless]

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26. [SPOILERS for Doctor Who]

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27. [SPOILERS for Mockingjay]

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28. [SPOILERS for Kung Fu Panda 2]

[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

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29. [TRIGGER WARNING for non-con]

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30. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

[Game of Thrones]

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31. [TRIGGER WARNING for eating disorders]

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32. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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33. [TRIGGER WARNING for transphobia?]

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34. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

[SPN]

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35. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape, pedophilia]

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36. [TRIGGER WARNING for eating disorders]

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37. [TRIGGER WARNING for self-injury, suicide]

[Manic Street Preachers]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #231.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

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28.
http://i52.tinypic.com/orqag3.jpg

I'm not disagreeing, but I do feel like they were both given the opportunity to look at their actions and see how they were hurting people, but chose not to. Tai Lung had Shifu confront him directly and try to make up for how he hurt his pupil in the past, but Tai Lung was too arrogant to accept not getting the scroll and was blinded by it. Even when he did see the scroll, he couldn't comprehend it and continued on trying to kill Po and take the scroll anyway.

Shen, on the other hand, was sent away to prevent him from taking the path of evil and resented his parents for it, rather than trying to make peace with the world around him. He too was arrogant and even when people did bow to him it was never enough. He shared a moment with Po and like Tai Lung with the scroll, couldn't comprehend letting go of his hatred and megalomania and finding inner peace. It was all or nothing for him.

I'm not saying they deserved what they got, but they were given more than one chance to see the error of their ways and look at the bigger picture. Neither of them wanted to see it for what it was.

I disagree. I think it's more mature when a kids' film kills off their villain, especially when it's more realistic to do so, which was the case with both of these characters. Both of them had an instance where they could've calmed the fuck down and thought their actions through (Shen had a handful), but both decided not to. Both of them had such a twisted view of the world and those around them, that if they had been given a second chance after all they'd done, it would've been really stupid of the movie, and of the good guys to do so.

I dunno man, the whole villain-turned-good-guy approach is really cheesy to me nine times out of ten. It does work sometimes, but it definitely doesn't here. The reason I loved both of these characters so much was because of how irreversibly despicable they were.

...Oh, was Tai Lung killed? I...honestly couldn't tell that from the movie, and was very confused, since the ending could have also had him just unconcious. They never seemed to actually address that, which I found strange.

Shifu apologized to Tai Lung and accepted he was at fault for many of his student's issues, and then Po later tried to explain the Dragon Scroll to him, but he was too enraged to listen. I agree, I felt bad for Tai Lung, but at some point they've got to choose to change. He was given the opportunity more than once. Given that even the prison couldn't hold him successfully, I'm not sure what alternative they could have had to killing him.

As for Shen, he was shown to be more twisted from the beginning, what with focusing on blowing things up and the panda massacre. Even so, he too was given many chances, especially through the Soothsayer figure, who kept encouraging him to change, and from Po again at the end. His words were even "Then I choose this!" A villain getting spared in a children's movie is often an easy out. I think it would have cheapened his own choices if he had been sent away with a swat on the tailfeathers to "think about what he's done".

I mostly agree with you, Anon! (Though IS Tai Lung dead? It was... kind of hard to tell)
I love both the KFP villains, they have great personalities, back stories, and are both totally freaking badass. I think Tai Lung might be slightly more badass due to the fact he broke out of a Alcatraz-style prison with over 1000 guards built especially just to hold him WITH NOTHING BUT A FEATHER, but I still absolutely adore Shen.

I would've liked to see both of them return (since there's definitely a third film on the way, plus a TV series), but sadly I think the reason they both (supposedly) killed off was their stories were kind of done. The writers I suppose just don't have any more plans for them and never did, unfortunately.
Well, I guess we can just hope for some new, just as good, if not even better villains maybe, yeah? :D

It's okay, I was sad when Shen died too ;_; He was so evil but GOD HE WAS AWESOME

I liked both villains but Tai Lung was more badass imo.

What Shen lacks in badassery he makes up for in fabulosity! Plus, Gary Oldman.

I originally only wanted to see the sequel because of Oldman. I thought: "Hey, in case it sucks you will at least have the chance to listen to Gary Oldman as an evil peacock overlord. That's quite something!" ;)

You'd probably like Megamind, then. I can't say much about it without spoiling EVERYTHING, but it's up your alley.

I felt bad for the villains, too. Especially after seeing Megamind from Dreamworks before seeing KFP2. I kept wondering if they would let Shen redeem himself since I was looking at it a lot more from HIS perspective, but sadly... :c

Ummmm almost ANY good antagonist is complex and has backstory. It makes them feel realistic. But we can't redeem every single one of them or it becomes cliche as all get out.

Oh wow I am surprised by the comments on this secret. I was coming here to say AGREE SO HARD, LOVE THESE WOOBIES, etc. Shen was tearing apart my heart SO BAD with his refusal to come to his senses. ;___;

Okay, okay, I know the bad guy being redeemed plot CAN get cheesy and sometimes it takes more guts to NOT redeem the bad guys and to have them be irreversibly evil (speaking from experience, since all of my original stories feature bad guys that aren't really that bad. *sigh* I am weak.)

But I have such a soft spot for these two and I wish they could have had a better ending. Like you said, not "instant-good" but an ending where they rethink their actions and go off and find a new reason for living. In general, I'm also a bit tired of black & white morality, especially when it comes to animated movies -- I LOVE shades of grey. You are not alone, anon!

*gives you hugs*

At least Shen kind of choose his own death and looked rather dignified when his own cannon crushed him.
So in the end he kind of put himself out of his own misery. He chose to die instead of listening to the one who was said to defeat him. A redemption would have been a little too out of character.

What really pissed me off was that Po's biological dad and so many other pandas were still alive. So in the end Shen's life and death and Po's acceptance of who he was were wasted in favor for the plot of a third movie.
At first you create this distrubing scenario of a genocide and in the end you are like: "April fools, kids! They're all alive! See you in three years for Kung Fu Panda 3!"

:/

Redemption is a very interesting plot point when done well, thing is it takes time and development to be realistic, sometimes movies find this difficult to do. (Even though I'm a pixar freak who would like to see Randall redeemed at some point or at the very least his exit to be questioned as being at the very least questionable)

Sometimes antagonists aren't redeemed even when they're not all bad. I'll be narccissitic and say this is in something I'm creating. While the 'dragon' eventually gets redeemed as do some others, the big bad doesn't get redeemed in mine. Though it may depend on your interpretation of evil. I mean the 'big bad' is technically this guy who dispises the world because he believes it to be evil and wants to strike back because of what they took from him. He believes it is better that this world ends and so uses a particular prophecy and then failing belief system and makes it big time- now being considered as the major interpretator and perfect mediator of the gods to some he is even higher than that. And hell his own FOLLOWERS and what they are willing to do mean he feels they are simply confirming what he already knows: this world is filth and willing to each other for their own well being. (Because only through being a follower is it believed they will be spared and taken to a different world).

It's mopre complicated than that though- the guy is also immortal and many people have been raised to think and believe in this way rather than simply the idea of being saved- which he doesn't seem to grasp himself. Though a part of him probably would think that was no excuse. They're still willing to sacrifice people for the sake of the prophecy and at points do things that intrinsically feel wrong just for the sake of it.

*"raised to think and believe this way is morally right rather than simply grasp at the idea of being saved"

*more

Tai Lung had the opportunity, though, after he read the scroll. Po wasn't going to keep fighting him. He was having a conversation with him. It was Tai Lung who decided to keep fighting. Shen was hellbent on his revenge plot that I think he was too fargone, too.

I think they were both too far gone, too hurt, and too stuck in the past to move forward. Shen and Tai Lung were both so convinced that they were wronged that I don't think any kindness would have changed their minds.

I agree with you anon. It would have been nice to see these complex characters own up to their crimes. It would have been new and different. I think that the whole 'a villain is irreversibly bad' trope is overdone and just as cheesy as the 'instant-good' one.

I hate getting invested in the bad guys and then having a "happy" ending that feels anything but.

I feel like in a way, Shen did realize what he did was wrong. When he said "I choose this" and cut the ropes holding his canon up, I felt that yeah, he was saying he wouldn't change his views on his parents and whatnot, but also sorta that he felt there was no more redemption for him, that he felt he couldn't go back after what he'd done anyways. That's why he didn't try to escape his death (and apparently, just smiled when that canon crushed him).

Also, according to TV tropes, the soothsayer took care of Shen when he was a kid because his parents couldn't keep him around the palace (white is the color of death in Chinese culture), and he was sick all the time too.

(I'm late to the party)

I got the same impression even though I tend to over-analyze everything! But it also seemed to me that Shen was accepting what was coming for him when he saw the cannon drop and closed his eyes.

What you read on TV tropes was the old concept they wanted to use for Shen's backstory. But knowing Dreamworks they dropped this story because it would have made Shen too likeable. They faced the same problem with Tai Lung. They feared the audience would be sad about his death, so they included the bit about him going on a blind rampage to make him appear more evil and twisted.

But still with he "new" backstory of Shen I felt sorry for him. Your parents send you away instead of taking care of you because they fear the path you might choose? They just give away their responsibility and try to get you out of the way? No wonder this guy thought is parents hated him.

All in all I feel more sorry for Shen because he was so obviously ill in the head, even though I also didn't like how Tai Lung just went "ska-doosh" ;)

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[ SECRET POST #1620 ]

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