Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2011-06-10 07:51 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2011-06-10 07:51 pm
[ SECRET POST #1620 ]
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
01.
[Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae wo Bokutachi wa Mada Shiranai]
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02.
[Hetalia]
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03.
[Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha]
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04.
[Michael Silas/Asiel Hardison, Lady Gaga's dancers]
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05.
[Tiger & Bunny]
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06.
[Evangelion]
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07.
[Zero Punctuation]
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08.
[The Catherine Tate Show]
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09.
[Grimgrimoire]
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10.
[wonderful days, guyver, cowboy bebop, texhnolyze, togainu no chi, black lagoon, samurai champloo, aishiteruze baby, tenjo tenge]
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11.
[X-Men: First Class]
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12.
[Tales of the Abyss]
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13.
[Human Target]
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14.
[A Song of Ice and Fire]
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15.
[Masterchef Australia]
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16.
[Sucker Punch]
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17.
[Mystique]
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18.
[Workaholics]
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19.
[Mark Reads]
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20.
[Jamie Campbell Bower ]
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21.
[Hey Arnold!]
[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]
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22. [SPOILERS for Homestuck]
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23. [SPOILERS for Gintama]
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24. [SPOILERS for Kamen Rider Kabuto]
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25. [SPOILERS for Loveless]
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26. [SPOILERS for Doctor Who]
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27. [SPOILERS for Mockingjay]
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28. [SPOILERS for Kung Fu Panda 2]
[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]
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29. [TRIGGER WARNING for non-con]
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30. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]
[Game of Thrones]
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31. [TRIGGER WARNING for eating disorders]
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32. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]
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33. [TRIGGER WARNING for transphobia?]
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34. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]
[SPN]
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35. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape, pedophilia]
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36. [TRIGGER WARNING for eating disorders]
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37. [TRIGGER WARNING for self-injury, suicide]
[Manic Street Preachers]
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #231.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.
no subject
Feminist "tokens" eh. GRRM is a self-described feminist, and his adherence to the theory is thoroughly recognizable throughout. Yes, there's swords and blood and dragons. Yes, it's set in a semi-realistic fanta-historical sexist setting, but that setting is challenged and the structure of patriarchy exposed through just about every female voice and many of the male ones. Yes, there are attractive women and lesbians. There are also attractive men and gays.
"Tokens", "adolescent", "male-geared" fantasy? Honestly, it spoke volumes to (adult, female) me, and if you read GRRM's blog that's precisely what he intended. Your "feeling" is your "feeling" but it is not fact; the fact is that your "feeling" is largely unfounded and extremely condescending to his feminist fans and the strong, nuanced female characters in his books, to boot.
no subject
No. That's nonsense and I don't buy it for a second. I can find works of fiction sexist and patriarchal independently of other women's readings; no one gets to say "that's sexist/feminist, and you're sexist/feminist if you disagree".
Again, I'm glad that you've found the series and fandom so feminist. Maybe when the next book comes out, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
no subject
And your reasoning for why you find it sexist is sexist. At the very least anti-feminist. But then, with statements like "male" experience (as if there are monoloithic experiences universal for all males that exclude all females) I'm not exactly shocked.
no subject
The experiences of men don't need to be monolithic for works to appeal to them.
no subject
Though it is interesting that you've backed down from your original claims of misogyny in the text to simply "not progressive". I'll take it, frankly; given the tone of the discussion I think it highly unlikely that you'll admit error at this point, even though I've found a number of those.
You appealed to a "'male' experience"; this is by definition a gender essentialism. Not to mention GRRM has stated outright he writes for both sexes, from a feminist slant, and that these passages appeal to my experience as a female as well. You're just wrong on this one, comrade. And more than a little anti-feminist. Much more than I would have expected from your earlier claims. It does explain the belittling and flippant disregard for his female characters, though.
no subject
You should scroll up and find those for me.
no subject
The story doesn't need to be misogynistic itself to uphold misogynistic conventions. It contains a huge, glaring, complex subject, and fails to speak interestingly on that subject.
Well, that was easy.
Admittedly your accusations of misogyny in the text refer to the "world" and not the "story" but they are nevertheless there.
But I see we're at the point in the conversation where you leap desperately on whatever single sentence might give you any foothold back into the discussion. Better luck with the next one; this one didn't pan out for you.
no subject
Better luck.
no subject
Is "those are not the exact words I used, so there, even if the meaning is identical" really all you've got? Even in the face of flagrant gender essentialism and factual errors about the books your criticizing? Really?