[ SECRET POST #1622 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1622 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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TRIGGER WARNING FOR RAPE

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 242 secrets from Secret Submission Post #231.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[meiko-matsui.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's what I got. He was genuinely hurt and confused because she definitely didn't shove him into the water when he kissed her, or acted upset or anything. In fact he probably had more reasons to think she liked him like their dance and stuff. I figured it was more of a "why am I not good enough?" more than a "you owe me".

That aside, squicks are squicks (especially for people who have/nearly have been sexually abused) and I'm sorry OP that your show triggered you. That's a huge bummer. Hopefully you can work past it, not to enjoy Katara/Aang, but to be able to enjoy your fandom/show without that rain cloud over your head.

[tazthelemon.livejournal.com]

I think there was some degree of 'you owe me!' but I didn't get a creepy vibe from it. (Not invalidating OP's feelings, though!) I think it was just because Aang is a twelve/thirteen-year-old kid raised by monks, who doesn't really get how this whole 'love' thing works.

[amanda-violet.livejournal.com]

This, exactly. I think it would have been creepy if they were older, but since they're both so young and experienced in the ways of love I can forgive a lot.

But I also hear you, OP. *hugs*

[amanda-violet.livejournal.com]

Heh. I meant "inexperienced."

[meiko-matsui.livejournal.com]

I think the tough part here is they're kids who sometimes act smarter than the adults. So all things considered it's no wonder the OP gets squicked based on her interpretation of the scene! D:

[meiko-matsui.livejournal.com]

Maybe, but that's not what I got from him. I think there was a definite frustration
(I think he couldn't understand why he didn't deserve his happy ending, and I guess she WAS his happy ending. So I can see where you get that she owed him or, to some people, wanted to win her, but I don't think his intentions/heart really meant that. He seems like the type to, more than anything, wish for her safety and happiness. Wow, off topic now much?)
and he maybe coulda handled that better-- but you make a good point. He's like 12 and raised by monks so... Not quite his fault.

[tazthelemon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, all that is very true. I don't think it's just a one-note emotion or scene. There was a lot going on in both of their heads.

[sarajayechan.livejournal.com]

Ditto. Aang honestly thought a magic kiss could cure her confusion (and felt very stupid when he realized that no, it wouldn't) and Katara didn't want to say "I love you" and then lose him AGAIN.

[meiko-matsui.livejournal.com]

This! I think that kiss really shows Aang's... what's the word... naivety?

[meiko-matsui.livejournal.com]

Yeah, exactly! There's so much more going on which I have to give the writers some props for. One view only gives you a fraction of what they're both thinking.

It's interesting that people have so many interps of this scene, and probably for good reason. It really makes you wonder what the writers thought of it, what the voice actors thought of it (and thus how they approached the scene) and then, cannonly, what the characters thought of it.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, that's the reason this is even a secret, because I know I have a good reason but I still feel stupid for it. Like I know that Aang's intent was not to force her into a relationship with him, but it was because he used almost the exact words my stalker/attacker did ("I thought we would be together!/when will it be right?!"), it sent me straight into "NO NO NO" land and I could not see those two as a couple without wanting to throw up. Fortunately I was warned about the finale kiss and just skipped it when I saw it was coming up.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I feel that way about the "save you from the pirates" scene that people claim is so shippy and such. I was restrained and sexually assaulted by a guy who I knew but didn't like too much. It really bothers me when people claim that it's romantic or the start of a romance or chemistry that points to romance. Then they claim because he is redeemed and she forgives him that they should be together. And I'm sorry, but while my rapist is apparently doing good works and I have forgiven him, I am certainly not going to view him romantically or want to date him. And it has completely turned me off that ship because that's what I think about when I see it.

So I get what you are saying. Although I find the EIP scene a bit more of two people who are extremely naive about love and relationships and who make mistakes and lack communication.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

What's weird is that scene didn't bother me as much because there were no romantic overtones to it that I could pick up on. Which is why I tilt my head and go "buh?" when the Zutara fans use it as shipper fuel. Because what is is this I don't even.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

And the EIP scene really doesn't bother me all that much. Yes, he should not have kissed her. But honestly, considering the play and the fact they had been flirting back and forth and he was going off to battle, I tend to view that scene as being two scared people who keep missing at communicating effectively. I don't see anything malicious in Aang because Aang isn't malicious. I just saw a desperate boy. And a girl who couldn't tell her friend one way or the other what she was really feeling.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

That's exactly why this is a secret. The rational part of my mind knows that was what was going on and the scene was just two people bumbling awkwardly through puppy love and miscommunication in the middle of a crisis. The part of my mind that was being stalked and assaulted by a guy who used almost the exact same words that Aang did will have no parts of this "rationality" stuff and jumps right into "NO NO NO."

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

But I think the trick is to distance the two and it's hard. I'm not telling you to like Aang and Katara. Because ship preferences are ship preferences (even though I love them...LOL). I am saying that Aang isn't your stalker and unlike your stalker, Aang felt badly for what he did. We saw him beat himself up for behaving that way. He was genuinely upset by it. And that is a good thing. That he felt like that. It is good that he had remorse and was upset.

I had a hard time not seeing Zuko in a negative light because of that scene. And it carried all the way through to the end. And it still pops up. Especially when I see bullshit shipping arguments. And it took a while but seeing him through the eyes of people who like him and understand him helped. I still hate that scene and what people twist it as. I still don't like Z/K.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

And I've been saying that I know that Aang is not my stalker. Heck, I know he's a fictional character and incapable of stalking or raping anybody because he doesn't even exist. But knowing this doesn't make that scene any easier to watch, or that ship any easier to like.

I don't even hate Aang as a character (I'm indifferent to him and really didn't think he was all that interesting, and in that respect Kataang never caught on with me in the first place even without the trigger). I just hate that scene, and that the resolution for him and Katara occurred off-screen, like so many other important interactions that I wanted to see. And while you may not intend to tell me that I have to like Kataang, that's...kinda what it feels like you're saying; that I need to just get over myself and ship it because way you do.

Heck, I don't like Zutara, either, but for other reasons (I'm indifferent to Zuko as well, and Zutara fandom is a serious house on serious earth). But being made to feel like I have no right to dislike Kataang for whatever reason is what's...grating, to say the least.

Re: OP

[meiko-matsui.livejournal.com]

Oh gosh OP, that's awful. :C *offers hug* I can definitely see how that would be a trigger. I've dealt with my fair share too, so trust me I know exactly where you are coming from. You're smart to avoid it when you know you can't handle it. I'm not as smart and still watch Law & Order SVU when I know I shouldn't. You'll be healthier for trusting yourself with that. Don't ever feel forced or rushed to try Kataang or the show or what have you. Seriously, I love Kataang but I could never ever blame you for feeling the way you do, and anyone who does probably doesn't have experiences the way we do.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks. FTR, I think probably could've gotten behind the ship a little bit (or at the very least been indifferent) if there'd been some kind of apology on Aang's part to Katara's face. Because even though we knew Aang regretted it and knew it was wrong, Katara never got that memo. And just having them kiss at the end without him even having to say he was sorry to her for invading her space like that was just too much on top of the issues I already had with that EIP scene.

I still catch the occasional SVU episode, but the reason those don't hit my NO button is because I know the formula and the bad guy will (usually) get caught and collared. This scene affected me a lot worse because it was between two good guys, and there was no "the police will save you" security blanket I could take refuge in like I do with SVU (though I've stopped watching it as much because Stabler's obsessive rogue cop tendencies creep me out for the same reason; it reminds me of stalking in a lot of ways).

Re: OP

[meiko-matsui.livejournal.com]

I getcha completely. It makes me wonder if maybe an apology happened off screen or something. Sometimes series do do that-- like in Series Encyclopedias and stuff like that. It kinda makes me hope that they do, because even though they're kids and an apology might not happen with them-- if they were adults that would not fly. I said before some of the problem is that these kids act like kids sometimes but a lot of the time they act smarter and wiser than the adults. So to see them, the wise good children, acting the way they did and to have your experience-- I could see where that would really mess with you. It's always a rough blow when the hero does something that makes you feel hurt. :C

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

But it stands to reason that there was some sort of forgiveness because in the next episode they were laughing and hugging and friends again. It's not like they went from the EIP scene to the finale kiss without interacting before then. I mean I kind of agree that they needed some sort of scene, but honestly that isn't the fault of the characters or their relationship but the writers trying to get so much stuff in. Right after EIP, they had a more pressing issue and then Aang disappeared. I would have loved to see a reunion between Aang and Katara where your apology would have fit right in, but we didn't get that. We got reunions between everyone else though.

I think Katara should have apologized to her brother for what she said in TSR on screen but we never saw that either.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

There are a lot of scenes that I wish I could've seen an apology for on-screen, and that line in TSR is definitely near the top of my list. But the scene in the secret stands out more because it was a full-out trigger for me. And most of that was the dialogue itself. Because as I mentioned, Aang's lines were almost exactly what my stalker/attacker said that night. It wasn't so much what was happening on screen as what Aang said. I probably could've handled the ill-fated kiss even, if Aang's dialogue hadn't sent me into a panic attack first.

And yeah, I agree, it was rushed (and sloppy) writing that was to blame, not the characters. Because the characters don't exist and can't control how they get written.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

This is off-topic, but what did she say to Sokka in TSR? My mind is blank... o_o

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

She said that Sokka didn't love their mother like she did because he didn't want revenge as she did. It was a low blow, and I'm extremely disappointed that the writers didn't see fit to have her say she was sorry.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Sokka: Katara, she was my Mother too. But I think Aang might be right.
Katara: Then you didn’t love her the way I did.
Sokka: (speechless) Katara...