[ SECRET POST #1670 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1670 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Going to be short posts this week, LJ being down half the week means less secrets total, sorry about that.

Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 204 secrets from Secret Submission Post #239.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 1 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

I don't mind the canon pairings but in all honesty, I think Jo had the future pairings in mind before she started writing and really exploring the characters. She always knew her endgame so that Harry could finally have his one, big happy family (Hermione even gets to become his sister! Of sorts), so that no matter how the characters developed throughout the series, no matter the chemistry between them, the endgame pairings could never change.

I'll be honest, I thought (didn't ship, but thought) Harry/Hermione until book four when Ron breaks his Crum action figure. But it was an, "oh, I guess that's the endpairing." :continues reading:

But seriously, Hermione was really good for Harry; supported him, balanced him, made him see things from a new perspective...but that doesn't mean it has to be romantic. Sometimes I wonder if these shippers have strong relationships with their siblings/friends of the opposite sex. You can have meaningful, dynamic, healthy relationships that have nothing to do with romance.

[kissinyuu.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I wonder if these shippers have strong relationships with their siblings/friends of the opposite sex.
While I definitely do see your point, this statement is dangerously bordering on insulting.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, well, it's a good thing bordering on insulting and actually BEING insulting are two different things.

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

I apologize. That was worded poorly and it definitely wasn't my intent to insult.

I guess I mean to say that every argument I see for Harry/Hermione, I'm like, "yes, that's true. But it can be true without it being romantic."

All this being said, I had no problem taking most of canon at face value. I only really shipped Sirius/Lupin, and while I didn't like the execution of Lupin/Tonks, I wasn't opposed to the pairing.

[alice-alaizabel.livejournal.com]

This. I've always been annoyed that they can't just be really good friends without it being complicated by romance. They loved each other, but it always felt totally platonic to me.

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

Part of the reason I think Harry and Hermione worked so great was because they were never complicated by puberty and dating and ~feelings. They always knew where they stood with each other, so no awkwardness could erode their relationship.

[alice-alaizabel.livejournal.com]

This exactly. You've summed up exactly what I wanted to say, only with greater elequence.

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

:)

Maybe that's why I can't sympathize with the shippers; I thought their friendship was executed so well, who'd wanna mess with that?

[dgcatanisiri.livejournal.com]

I really like that fact. It's something I want to see more in all mediums, the idea of people of compatible orientation NOT being interested in taking things to a romantic level. They like each other, even love one another, but they're not IN love with each other.

[(Anonymous)]

NA

But it can be true without it being romantic.

I don't see how this is any more true than any other type of romantic relationship. Friends can bicker and argue all the time without it being romantic too, so what's your opinion on Ron/Hermione? To assume that Harry/Hermione shippers must not have any strong sibling relationships or male/female friendships is basically the same argument as "how can you ship and incest pairing? Don't you have any siblings?!" People see what they want to see in their favorite pairings and different pairings ping different people in different ways. It doesn't make any of those arguments in favor of Harry/Hermione any less valid simply because they could be applied to platonic friendships as well. And it doesn't mean that there's some deep seated RL reason that some people see something in a pairing that others don't, or want two characters to be in a romantic relationship while others don't.

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

To assume that Harry/Hermione shippers must not have any strong sibling relationships or male/female friendships is basically the same argument as "how can you ship and incest pairing? Don't you have any siblings?!"

Agreed. I've said further up thread that I was careless with my words in that line.

Look, I feel like we are both arguing that these are flip sides of the same coin. My comments were mostly in reaction to that type of shipping argument that points to Harry/Hermione as the most valid ship of all the young characters. It's "evidence" that Hermione/Ron and Harry/Ginny are inferior. But my point is that the same evidence to me only points out that Hermione and Harry have a deep, abiding relationship that isn't complicated by romance, as the canon trio ships are.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

I like the canon friendship of Harry and Hermione. But my favorite kind of romance is the kind where two very close friends gradually develop romantic feelings. Friendships don't have to develop that way, but they can and often do. And Ron and Hermione, to me, always read like siblings. My sister and I interact the same way. Bickering romances are a big turn off of mine. And most of the couples I know in real life act like Harry and Hermione, not Ron and Hermione.

To each there own, basically. We all have shipping preferences. And that is okay. I don't think the OP is saying that no one is allowed to ship canon. They are just saying personally, for them, they would have preferred H/Hr and saw it more in canon. And that is okay. Personally, I never got my hopes up for H/Hr because I did see R/Hr coming from about book 4 (though I never saw H/G until it happened). But that doesn't change my shipping preferences. I actually like H/G more than I like R/HR because I can see H/G possibly working. R/Hr just doesn't do it for me at all. I trio ship heavily, sometimes as much as I ship H/Hr because while I can't stand R/Hr by themselves, the three of them together are awesome.

[(Anonymous)]

It might be insulting, but also true. I've seen it around me enough and I see it in me as well.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I feel similarly, in what you say about the endgame and about the emotion I felt in the book four reveal.

[(Anonymous)]

But seriously, Hermione was really good for Harry; supported him, balanced him, made him see things from a new perspective...but that doesn't mean it has to be romantic.

I hate this argument. No, it doesn't mean it has to be romantic. It doesn't mean it can't be romantic, though. Lots of wonderful relationships are borne out of strong friendships, and them being friends does nothing to change my opinion of them as a romantic pairing. Everything you listed there - Hermione was good for Harry (as I think Harry was for Hermione), she supported him, balanced him, made him see things from a new perspective - are all reasons that I like them as a pairing. No, it doesn't have to be romance, but if I like the idea of them as a romantic pairing, why should that stop me from shipping them?

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

Everything you listed there - Hermione was good for Harry (as I think Harry was for Hermione), she supported him, balanced him, made him see things from a new perspective - are all reasons that I like them as a pairing.

Yes, I understand that. These are all things shippers point to as evidence of their ship, which is fine, but my point is that these things are evidence of a strong and interesting relationship that doesn't necessitate romance in order to give it validity.

[(Anonymous)]

I really don't see that as a point against the ship itself though. Sure, it doesn't have to be romantic to be a valid relationship, but all of those things are qualities that one could look for in a romantic relationship just as much as in a friendship. It seems like you're presenting this as a reason not to ship these two, and I don't see how that makes sense. All your argument comes down to is you see it one way, other people see it another way.

[resounding-echo.livejournal.com]

All your argument comes down to is you see it one way, other people see it another way.

Yes that's exactly my argument: that the evidence goes both ways. My comments have been mostly in reaction to the shipping argument that presents Harry/Hermione as a more valid ship than the canon ones.

I personally don't ship Harry/Hermione because I'm fine with Harry/Ginny and Hermione/Ron, but more than that, I like the dynamic and developed relationship that two major characters have without it treading into romance.

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe I'm beating a dead horse here, but I feel like having a discussion about it, so oh well.

I really don't like the whole idea that people who ship best friends don't have one/don't understand friendships/etc. I know you've acknowledged that you worded it poorly, but I see this concept come up pretty regularly, and it bugs me. Like, I have friends of both genders that I adore, I have a wonderful relationship with my older brother, and I have a best friend who I love with all my heart and would do anything for, but I don't feel romantically towards any of them. So I get the concept of close, non-romantic relationships. But I also frequently ship the hell out of best friends, probably because I love the trust and camaraderie inherent in those relationships. Of course, I've also been in love with and had crushes on friends, so I get how that works, too. I just don't understand how adding romance to a relationship cheapens the friendship there. It could also break them up or cause tension, I suppose, but I would think that if anything it would just make for a stronger bond a lot of the time.

tl;dr, not everyone who sees romance between friends is a loner who has no meaningful relationships, I guess. :P