fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1680 ]

[ SECRET POST #1680 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1680 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 102 secrets from Secret Submission Post #240.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

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I respect that people have their own views, but these secrets still scream
"LOOK AT ME, I am edgy! No, really LOOK AT ME!"

John was the first person to say he could be awful at times. He was no more hypocrite than many musicains (indie and mainstream) today. What people find endearing about him is he openly proclaimed how bad he could be, he knew it and owned it, but he still glimpsed and tried for a better way.

Read a real Lennon bio (as in book) and come back to me.

Read a real Lennon bio (as in book) and come back to me.

You know the OP won't!

Of course, they want to remain all edgy/hipster/whatever. One thing I can say proudly is I never tried to deface the memory of a famous person (what's the point? People will still love them) and I at least tried to make sure I knew the topic well before I said anything.

I never even proclaimed to love him until I knew more about him than just basic facts. Now I can say I can. :)

Ever think maybe it's not about being 'edgy/hipster/whatever' and is just stemming from disliking someone because he was an asshole? Just because he acknowledged it doesn't mean everything is magical happy funtimes and all dislike therefore has no foundation. I don't give a shit what he said about himself, it doesn't change my opinion of him.

Also, good job patting yourself on the back. You really think what anyone says about a dead celebrity can actually change how people see them? Barring secret love children and attendance at KKK rallies and whatever other dirty secrets you can think up. People will think what they think, and some random person expressing dislike is more likely to change peoples' view of the dissenter than the famous person.

.... you mad?

And also where did I state that someone couldn't dislike him? I'd really like you to point that out.

I was talking about people who do so just to be edgy (yes, people can dislike him for whatever reason) and can't back up what they say by giving actual reasos. So... I have no idea what you're on about.

This is an excellent point, but I feel like so many people don't even recognize this about him. To be fair, most of the people I hear talking about him are teenage girls quoting "Imagine" on facebook, but I feel a little bit bothered that there are so many people who think he was a visionary and, like, the best Beatle evar and they don't even know who George Harrison is.

Maybe I'm just being a jerk.. :\

Oh, you're not being a jerk at all! I think all The Beatles were great and they all deserve respect. I think some of the fans have painted John as the only beatle who mattered and that was not so.

Thus I think the people who have problem with him is based more on the image some fans projects rather than how John actually was.

That... is probably what my problem is. I should examine this more carefully.

Also, do you have any recommendations for biographies?

My personal favorite is " John Lennon: The Life" by Philip Norman. Some said it exposed too, showing the bad sides, but I think that is the point of any good bio. Also I think it's the only one that Yoko and their son Sean have took part in.

I agree with the person above about the Norman book! although it has many flaws, I still think it's the best book about Lennon so far. I'd also recommend John's own "autobiography", for a dip into what it was like to be John Lennon, "Skywriting by Word of Mouth."

Yay for George Harrison love! I did not realize until I was 19 or so that he wrote literally *every one* of my most favorite Beatles songs. He is easily the most under-appreciated Beatle!

I think John gets so much worship because he died so young. It's always that way when a truly talented artist passes early - people can't help but idealize his life and imagine how perfect he would have been if he'd had a few more decades.

But either way, I think all the Beatles, individually and as a group, deserve respect!

My favorite George song is "For You Blue", I just love how happy and spontaneous it is. though there are times when only "Something" will do

Agreed :)

Not the OP, but how can I be a hipster or oh so edgy if I genuinely hate a person and am sick of all the ass kissing his fans do? But after reading the comments to the secret I hate him even more now.

Why the fuck would I read something that would send me into a blind rage?

mte. It's really strange to me that his fans go "Yeah he totally was but YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO BE EDGY BY DISLIKING HIM FOR IT".

I thought the common thought process was Someone is a asshole hypocrite > you dislike them for it, but when it's a famous guy it has to go Someone is a asshole hypocrite > MUST UNDERSTAND HIS INNER SECRET PAIN > like him.

It's different when they're famous obviously, just look at Roman Polanski and Whoopi Goldberg's comment about what he did not being "rape rape."

I understand liking asshole characters, since they tend to be interesting, but a real person who's an asshole hypocrite? Just because he was in the Beatles is no excuse (I don't even like the Beatles, they sounded like everyone else when they first became famous, then they became hippies).

I fail to see what the Polanski business has to do with anything, here. I don't think Lennon gets a favour treatment because he was famous, I think it's rather the contrary.

The point about liking Lennon is that, although he tended to be arsehole-ish, he had huge redeeming qualities. I think people who do know him and like him admire the fact that, although he had a certain tendency to be a bastard, he kept trying to get better, and he eventually did, in the last years of his life. He managed to get a lot of his demons under control and led a rather quiet life as a househusband, going back to music when his son was old enough not to need him all the time anymore.

The Beatles didn't sound like everyone else back then. They sounded like no-one else, that's why they became so famous and started a trend, which was why a lot of bands sounded like them afterwards. And then they became hippies? What's wrong with hippies, they wrote wonderful tunes in these years.

Again, not what I was saying. I said the SECRETS were like that. This is fandomsecrets and people try to be edgy all the time. I am about talking ONLY about those who do that.

And frankly, I just find it childish for someone to claim to hate someone based on a few facts and some fans. Don't know the topic that well? Your opinion doesn't hold much weight. If you have legit reasons (however you found them) that's clearly different.

Edited 2011-08-10 17:53 (UTC)

Well, I have found out through the thread that he hit women, so I hate him for being a disgusting human being and I also hate him for being a do nothing hippy, contributing no money to help any of his causes. Of course, I hate hippies.

oh wow. You really don't know anything about Lennon, then.

He literally gave all of his money to charity during the height of his charity years, including copyrights to some of his songs (the "Imagine" copyrights, which are huge, go to Amnesty International, for instance). Not only that but he also did concerts for charity, hosted events on Tv and on the radio, went to demonstrate and even welcomed people in need of shelter for political reasons in his own house. So much that he got followed very closely by Nixon's FBI and that it took him ages to even get a green card, bothering the authorities as he was with anti Vietnam rallies.

As for the matter of him hitting women, he mentioned doing so but none of the women he ever was with really backed it up. His first wife said he'd slapped her once and his second wife said he never did. One of his main mistresses mentioned him being violent when he was really drunk, which was fairly rare. I think he mostly felt bad from being emotionally abusive, which he was, especially in his early years. That was enough for him to publicly apologize about it and feel terribly guilty for it, when most of the men in the sixties-seventies thought it was okay to rough your girl up when she didn't behave. Including most rock-stars, as a matter of fact.

I hope this broadens your very narrow-minded view of him a little. On you hating hippies well, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But I hope you at least know what you're talking about.

(no subject)

that-evening.livejournal.com - 2011-08-11 16:42 (UTC) - Expand

I get what you mean, but see it that way. You're perfectly allowed to dislike someone based on their fans or on a few articles, news or whatever you read here and there. But you have to be aware that your representation of this person is very superficial, and therefore that your dislike of them might not be founded.

So, what the people in this thread were saying is just I guess, do not judge without knowing? Of course, I understand not wanting to bother reading something about someone you don't like. But then, your opinion will always be "I don't like him but I don't actually know much about him, so I'd better shut up." If you read some more, perhaps it could be "I dislike him for legit reasons".

Man I really wish people would stop labeling those who hate John as "edgy"

I only refer to those who make secrets about it without any info as to why. This fandomsecrets. Almost everyone tries to be edgy.

It has nothing to do with Lennon haters in the real world.

well, if they have legit reasons to do so then no, it's just an opinion, but if they just do so to be different and ~cool by hating someone usually considered as brilliant and loveable? How would you call that?

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