fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1687 ]

[ SECRET POST #1687 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1687 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

This is not your forum to identify and call out specific people just to call them assholes. Call out general actions you find reprehensible, mod ability/inability, that kind of stuff, but once you get into what basically amounts to 'this person is a stupid bitch and here are some icons/an lj layout/add. info to identify them with' - no.

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 142 secrets from Secret Submission Post #241.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 (ED trigger warning) - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

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So he lied, used and manipulated the brothers because he felt mistreated? You mean Dean and Sam should ask for forgiveness and hug him and ignore the fact that he0's using souls to be powerful? Castiel is not a kicked puppy, he's not stupid, he's smart and knew how to manipulate both Dean and Sam to get what he wanted. Yeah, Dean and Sam never asked him what was wrong but how can you expect Dean to worry about Castiel when his own life is a mess and his brother didn't have his soul and people wanted him dead and couldn't Castiel ask for help? he did have a mouth.

And Castiel kinda got Dean into this mess so I don't know why the Winchesters should be all Castiel loving.

If you really want to be honest, they're all very manipulative towards each other. It's usually either their way or the highway. That being said, I'd say Castiel more than made up for the fact that he manipulated them by everything he's sacrificed on their behalf. He got power from those souls because it was all he could do. Raphael would've wiped his ass with him because the simple fact is that Cas was very outclassed and it was either get a power trip or die and risk the apocalypse all over again. Sure, he could've gone to Dean, but he actually cared enough to not bring that kind of burden to someone who had been through so much.

Oh, that bastard.

I just read this 'poor Castiel is so perfect' lecture over and over again and all I see is an angel who lied just like Dean and Sam did and I don't understand why he gets special treatment. Castiel sacrificed things, just like Dean and Sam have been doing all the time. Castiel didn't do Dean's a favor saving him from hell, he wanted something back, so Castiel is not this poor soul who was abused and got tired and turned into an evil sailor moon.

Why can't you accept he's not perfect? He lied, he killed his friends, he betrayed his people. He's anything but perfect.

Well of course he's not perfect. None of them are. They're all controlling, manipulative, and self-destructive. It's what makes them so compelling to watch. That is precisely why I find the whole thing to be so hypocritical. I don't mean to turn this into a Sam vs. Cas argument because I despise those and think they're both great characters, but Dean gave a "blanket apology accepted" for all the crap people have pulled, and Sam's was a massive load, and yet that didn't extend to Castiel?

Personally, I don't believe he deserved all the crap he got for working with Crowley. They had a right to feel betrayed because he did it behind their backs but they too have worked with demons to achieve a shared end (Sam even went so far as fucking one and drinking her blood), plus he really had no other choice. Sure he could've gone to Dean, but what was he going to do, give him a pep talk and a pat on the ass? Raphael could've knocked them both down with a single bitch smack.

Sam is Dean's brother. Sam was/is and might be forever Dean's main reason to breath. Castiel is a friend.

This.

i love my little sister more than anyone else on this planet and practically raised her after our mom and dad split up, but i still, y'know, forgive and try to understand my friends who aren't her. the former does not make the latter impossible.

wait nvm, we're talking about supernatural. carry on.

Yeah, but the relationship between Sam and Dean is so much more than this. Is a sick codependecy born from a very fucked up childhood with monsters, supernatural monsters, a fucked up father (good in his heart but terribly bad in his parental skills) and more troubles than the normal boys (economics, social,educational).

Comparing their childhood with your childhood or mine childhood is pretty silly.

hence why i said "nvm this is spn".

Castiel went against his orders, his faith, and his own safety for Dean.

What did the brothers do for him? And I mean exclusively for him not for heaven or the greater good?

Agreed. I'm a hardcore Dean/Cas shipper, but the rose-colored glass people have about Cas always surprises me. He's a grown man/angel, irritable, hardheaded, and stubborn. I'd also argue that he "used" Sam and Dean at least as much as they used him.

This, all of it, so very much. Hell, it's part of the reason why I like Supernatural so much; I can't really think of a character I want to give a hug who I don't also desperately want to punch in the face, often at the same exact time. When shit goes down, everyone messes up somehow and no one is really blameless in the end.

What also surprises me is that the people who go "But Cas was nice because he didn't want to bother Dean with his problems and baww" don't realize that's a very big part of why everything went wrong. I mean, if he'd just shown himself that day and went "Dean, I accidentally a whole Sam. Also Raphael wants to accidentally a whole me. On purpose. HALP", a lot of the misconceptions and communication issues throughout the season could have been avoided...

I can't really think of a character I want to give a hug who I don't also desperately want to punch in the face, often at the same exact time. When shit goes down, everyone messes up somehow and no one is really blameless in the end.
basically a perfect description of all the main characters in SPN.

Do people really say Cas is too nice?
I mean in a episode even he himself said that he fell because of his pride.
But I totally understand why he wouldn't ask for help; like that one angel says the winchesters only seem to call him when they need something.
I would also be weary about asking help from a person who can't even decided if they're friends or not.
The hero falls because of his tragic fetal flaw - common trope. The rest is history. :|

And Castiel kinda got Dean into this mess

lol, the entirety of season six is Castiel's fault, all because he refused to accept responsibility for his actions. Responsibility for bringing Sam back wrong, for his crusade in torturing monsters bringing Eve back, for dragging his human friends into an angelic war they couldn't fight in, and all the domino effect deaths and hurt those things caused--and then he brushed all of it right off into the lap of Dean at the end of the season yet again (just like he did in Season 5 after being a core contributor in making sure Lucifer got released back in S4) because only having an entire army of angels on his side amid a handful of people disagreeing apparently wasn't enough.

So yeah, I'd say he definitely got Dean and Sam both into this mess. He's not brain damaged nor a child and I hope he finally sacks up for once next season and stops pushing his choices, issues and mistakes off onto Dean.

Yeah I see your point. He should've let Raphael put the apocalypse back on rails. Totally his fault trying to save humanity while Dean was busy giving Sam his soul back. And while we're at it, he should've left Sam down in the pit. It wasn't his business to rescue him unless he was willing to take "responsibility" for him being brought back all wrong.

/incredulous sarcasm

Dude, heaven is not the Winchesters' realm. They have no way of getting there, no way of fighting. They did what they could when Cas actually asked them (instead of just dumping them in the middle of it without explanation or letting Crowley threaten and use them), but his utter lack of communication with them about what was really going on led to unnecessary death and carnage on earth. Earth, where the boys live, and also feel responsibility for protecting.

I think there's only so many times one can ask "Can we help?" and hear "No" back before one has to trust he's being honest about not needing the help. It's not like Sam and Dean could have sprouted wings and went to make sure Cas had shit covered in heaven. Again, it's all about Cas's lack of communication. I do think the boys would have been more understanding if he'd been honest from the get-go, because they did have the same goal as Cas: saving the earth. As evidenced by them trying to stop Cas from opening the gate to purgatory (when he again refused to communicate with them) and unleashing whatever might be waiting inside.

And yes, I do believe he had a responsibility toward Sam when he brought him back. I think it's wonderful that he tried, and I really can't blame him for the choices soulless Sam made because that Sam was still [a version of] Sam, but the fact is it could have been prevented entirely if Cas hadn't been too prideful (as Cas canonically stated) to think something could have gone wrong with the rescue, even when he suspected it. It just seems so odd to me that he would bring his friend back from hell and then not consider the possibility that he might be damaged by that. Not even check? (Not to mention by the time they actually figured out what was wrong with Sam, he seemed to think leaving Sam suffering in hell was better than even suggesting the possibility of saving his soul and bringing it to rest in heaven, if he felt his body couldn't handle having it back in. And seeing how Cas seemed to genuinely care when Sam was finally resouled, I'll never understand the reasoning behind that until canon explains it to me.)

The thing is that Cas knew far, far more about what was going on during the two years covered by S6 than the Winchesters did, and that alone takes away a lot of the ability to shift blame for his choices onto Sam and Dean, which a lot of his fans have been trying to do this summer. Because I think even if Dean had been inviting him down for tea and crumpets every weekend, Cas still wouldn't have told him the truth and they would have ended up in the same mess.

this x a million

this x 1,000

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[ SECRET POST #1687 ]

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