[ SECRET POST #1757 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1757 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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34. [TRIGGER WARNING for child abuse/rape]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 119 secrets from Secret Submission Post #.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[ncc-gqmf.livejournal.com]

You have to admit that the ~vogue~ here for Nazi symbolism has really opened up the doors for the whole "It's fashionable now! it doesn't MEAN anything" argument, however, no?

[(Anonymous)]

Sure, nowhere have I denied that Japan is at fault.

I'm only pointing out that there are others at fault besides Japan, and to pin the blame on Japan and only Japan is a bit blind and unfair. It would exist whether or not Japan existed; plenty of Nazi fetishism comes from western countries like the USA and UK.

[ncc-gqmf.livejournal.com]

Now you're definitely coming across as defensive. There's way more Nazi fetish crap in the mainstream here than there is in the US, and way fewer instances of it getting smacked the hell down. If a cartoonist in the US tried to draw a popular character in Nazi regalia, there would be a shitstorm. The last instance of it in the UK I can think of was Prince Harry, and he was raked over the coals for it. In Japan, it goes without mention every day.

[(Anonymous)]

Please don't read things into my words that aren't there. Nowhere did I say that all countries are equally at fault. Japan is way worse than others, obviously.

That doesn't mean they're the sole country at fault, like mekkio is making them out to be.

[ncc-gqmf.livejournal.com]

It would exist whether or not Japan existed; plenty of Nazi fetishism comes from western countries like the USA and UK.

implies that western countries are on a par with Japan when it comes to Nazi bullshit. They're not.

[(Anonymous)]

It doesn't, though. I didn't say it would exist on the same level or be as prevalent. But would it exist at all? Yes.

[ncc-gqmf.livejournal.com]

"Plenty," however, does. How much is plenty, exactly?

[(Anonymous)]

By plenty I meant "enough to have a significant enough presence to be an issue, with or without Japan," which I believe is true. Would it be as much? Nope. But enough to be an issue? Yes.

Stop all of Japan from producing any Nazi fetishist media, and it would still exist in non-insignificant quantities.

[ncc-gqmf.livejournal.com]

I come from the US and have never seen any Nazi symbolism or imagery there except as used by movie bad guys and, like, the occasional fetish porn thing or something.

In Japan, I literally see it basically every week. Stop Japan from producing Nazi fetish media and it would go a long-ass way.

Yes, there are other countries. Yes, there are other countries where it's more harmful (in Italy, it's actually anti-Semitic, as opposed to Japan where it's just ignorant as hell). That doesn't mean Japan isn't responsible for a lot of -- maybe even most of -- the cool, stylish Nazi imagery thing as it exists right now.

[(Anonymous)]

...so you're arguing with me to agree with me? I'm confused at what you're disagreeing with here, because you basically said what I said.

Japan is responsible for a lot. It's not responsible for all.

Therefore, blaming only Japan for it is rather simplifying the issue.

Which part of that did you disagree with?

[ncc-gqmf.livejournal.com]

I think you're being defensive and/or denying the magnitude of Japan's role in this and the degree of responsibility it bears for making Nazis cool.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think I ever did. On my end it looks like mekkio- not you- is handwaving the participation of other countries in this as unimportant.

[mekkio.livejournal.com]

I know that other countries participate in the activity but not to the degree as the Japanese do. For other countries it's strictly an underground thing. Meanwhile, in Japan you can find this in every day pop culture. Manga, television, pop idols, for instance. Again, in other countries there's a thug menace to it. That's why it's underground. Because they know it's wrong or at least, not acceptable in their certain culture. But in Japan, not so.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd agree with that. To a lot of Japan, it is genuinely "lol just cool uniforms who cares," and that should change.

What you originally wrote seemed to put all the blame for any and all Nazi fetishism at Japan's feet, though- and I was just pointing that out when this rather circular discussion with ncc_gqmf happened, that's all.

[type89.livejournal.com]

It's also prevalent in India and South Korea, actually! And possibly any other country that had little to do with Nazis.

It's a case of detachment. Japan was sided with Germany in WW2. They didn't have much interaction with Nazis in their own country, I think, and there were no war crimes committed against them by Nazis. (They were commiting war crimes they still refuse to own up to :/ )

So, unlike Europe and North America there really isn't that strong of a negative public opinion towards Nazis. I'm not even sure how well they cover the Holocaust in history school textbooks; they definitely gloss over their own country's war crimes and paint a bad picture of the Allies.

In the end it's just a difference in culture. A very bad difference but there it is. If any type of media treated the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombings the way Nazis are treated I'm sure there'd be a much bigger public outcry, considering that actually had a huge effect on Japan itself.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, you're right, Nazi fetishism isn't exclusive to Japan. Hell, both the US and Europe can even boast a movie genre known as Nazisploitation. However, in comparison to Japan, this is a)very rare, b)pretty much underground and/or "cult" and c)targeted towards a very limited audience. That is really a huge difference. Although you're also right in saying that going "lol Japan" isn't exactly helpful.

I think the issue may lie in the difference between "knowing" and "feeling". To turn it around, I "know" perfectly well what the Japanese army did during WWII, but I still think some of their uniforms look really attractive, although I don't fetishize them. German WWII uniforms, on the other hand? Yes, I can appreciate the design, but it's a big pile of DONOTWANT, because I grew up between the ruins of a ghetto and a former Gestapo torture block. So, you know. Different sensitivity is all.

[(Anonymous)]

Nowhere did I say all countries were equally to blame. My only point here was that Japan is not the only one to blame and other countries' participation in this shouldn't be overlooked like this in a "lol Japan" way.