[ SECRET POST #1773 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1773 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 055 secrets from Secret Submission Post #253.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry but NONONO! I LOVE Hamill's Joker and I think The Killing Joke is a must-read for any Batman fan, but I do not want to see it turned into an animated movie. It's hard enough to see Barbara being shot in the stomach and Joker leaning over her with the camera ready as he begins to strip her in a still panel on a page, I do not need to see that in in motion, complete with her groans of pain. I do not need to see an animated version of the scene where Jim Gordon is stripped and forced to view pictures of his daughter naked and bleeding out. I know The Killing Joke is popular (at least in part because it's a story with Joker as the focus) and there's a lot of interesting backstory about Joker's life in there, but there are other Joker stories out there that aren't as uncomfortable to read, that don't glorify in sexualised violence against a well-loved female character. I have no doubt Hamill's performance would be amazing, but he'd be amazing in any Joker story.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I kind of have to agree with this. The Killing Joke is an amazing book, but it's also damn upsetting to read. I've only read it once and it never really left me - it's haunting, but not in a good way, in a can't-block-out-the-images way. Which is exactly what Moore was going for, so props for that. Again, not disputing it's a visceral and gripping read. But I can't believe that anyone would want to see an animated version of it.

[(Anonymous)]

Then don't watch it.

Just because you don't want to see the icky bits, doesn't mean other people don't. Geez.

[(Anonymous)]

DA
That's true but I think anon has a good point that there are other Joker stories out there that would make better movies. Just because the Killing Joke is one of the most well-known doesn't mean its the best suited to adaptation and those scenes (Babs being shot, the whole carnival ride bit) are a defense of why the KJ wouldn't be comfortable viewing.

[(Anonymous)]

I think what happens in The Killing Joke goes beyond "icky bits", TBH.

[(Anonymous)]

THIS.

[kryptoncat.livejournal.com]

I'm not familiar with The Killing Joke, but if they made an animated movie of it, do you think they would make it tamer than what anon has described up there?

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT
Possibly - while the Joker shooting Babs is a major plot point, the stripping her naked is gratuitous and vile. Jim being stripped is equally pointless. They're both supposed to be psychological attacks, like it's not enough for the Joker to shoot her, he has to go one further. But the stripping could, theoretically, be left out. Its just that I don't trust DC to do that. In the Batman: Year One animated movie, they've cut out most if not all of Harvey Dent's best moments, ones that established his initial partnership with Batman, but they've kept in Millar's 'women are saints or whores' origin story for Selina. DC alter pretty much all their adaptations, which is fine, but they don't always alter them for the better, and I don't exactly trust them handling what happens to Babs delicately. Plus you KNOW there'd be fanboy rage about them cutting the stripping parts because it would damage ~the integrity of the story~ or whatever. >:I

[he-is-wild.livejournal.com]

UNPOPULAR OPINION TIME: I love the Joker but I have some issues with Killing Joke even in regards to his characterization. Like the stripping just seemed like a cry for an attempt at edginess and his whole plot in the story seemed somehow unhinged and lacking in his usual finesse. Plus the story never made me laugh or even crack a smile.

I do love the book, but it sort of established this thing where people try to one up each other's edginess re: Joker. I'd dare say toning it down a bit would make it BETTER. But...this is just my own opinion, others may disagree.

[(Anonymous)]

I totally agree with all of this. The only way the Joker's actions really make any sense are if you read him as having some sort of breakdown but even then there's still an air of shock value to the way it's written, like it's more about doing something dark and horrific to well-loved characters than any real story. The fact that it was supposed to be an Elseworlds just makes it seem more glaring.

And, yeah, also agree that people seem to see this as an unpopular opinion. I think everyone who's really into the whole Gotham world should read it; it's definitely a defining moment in the Batfamily history and it feels like a punch to the gut. But it's still almost unpleasant to read at times - you can't look away but it's not necessarily because you're being entertained or enjoying the experience. And, for whatever reason, it inspires incredibly defensive reactions. People can be flat-out nasty if they think somebody's saying a bad word about it. Even if somebody says they think it's a good book but is uncomfortable to read, they can get lynched - so far I haven't found a single space on the Internet where people are willing to discuss the book and it's flaws as well as its high points. Many fans are only willing to hear the good. Which is really strange to me, because there are so many other books that are just as infamous and loved but flawed that people are willing to discuss in a balanced manner. I've seen an amazing and totally civil debate about Death In The Family descend into name-calling chaos because somebody pointed out a flaw shared between DITF and the Killing Joke. I've never really figured out what it is about the Killing Joke that makes people take any criticism against it so seriously.

[he-is-wild.livejournal.com]

I am one of those fandom roleplayers spoken of in strange, dark places. Like Shoggoths. And as a Joker fangirl I do a lot of thinking about TKJ's relevance. There is a story called Going Sane that takes place early on the continuity. I like to think it happens before TKJ because in GS Joker thinks he's killed Batman and goes into a fugue. While in a fugue he falls in love and gets engaged then Batman comes back and his fugue breaks but he has one last flashback to the woman he fell for. If TKJ is the next story after this, then I like to think he acted out of grief, trying to emotionally sort through losing this person he can't remember. Hence the creation of the Jeannie history and his erratic behavior (which involves forcing someone else to feel loss). Putting it into that sort of framework TKJ makes more sense to me.

As for why people are so passionate about the book...I think its legacy and reputation are its own self-fulfilling prophecy. Whenever someone enters the fandom they are told to read TKJ and after they do they feel like they've joined some sort of in-club. They're in the know now! And now they can be the ones telling new fans what to read. DC itself advertises TKJ as one of their masterpieces.

All of this said, I do own Killing Joke and it IS one of my favorite comics but the more I've been thinking about it the more I've been seeing some of its faults. It's a good book, it's worth the read, but it isn't perfect. And...someday I hope the fandom, and the company, will realize it's okay to acknowledge this.

/tldr

[(Anonymous)]

I am totally taking your headcanon, 'kay? *yoink*

[blackjackrocket.livejournal.com]

I do appreciate that someone mentioned that Jim got stripped too. People seem to forget that and only focus on Babs.