[ SECRET POST #1773 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1773 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________



17.


__________________________________________________



18.


__________________________________________________



19.


__________________________________________________



20.


__________________________________________________



21.


__________________________________________________



22. [repeat]


__________________________________________________



23.


__________________________________________________



24.


__________________________________________________



25.


__________________________________________________



26.


__________________________________________________



27.


__________________________________________________



28.


__________________________________________________



29.


__________________________________________________



30.


__________________________________________________



31.


__________________________________________________



32.


__________________________________________________



33.


__________________________________________________



34.


__________________________________________________



35.


__________________________________________________



36.


__________________________________________________



37.


__________________________________________________



38.


__________________________________________________



39.


__________________________________________________



40.


__________________________________________________



41.


__________________________________________________



42.


__________________________________________________



43.


__________________________________________________



44.


__________________________________________________



45.


__________________________________________________



46.


__________________________________________________



47.


__________________________________________________








Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 055 secrets from Secret Submission Post #253.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[justaminuet.livejournal.com]

I think my issue with it stems from the feeling that some BL writers make their "uke" so effeminate (like in the picture they used), it almost feels like they want that character to be female in every way but the correct body parts. Like the writer is uncomfortable with writing/drawing two characters that are clearly male together, and then I feel uncomfortable because of that.

[cherrycoloured.livejournal.com]

female in every way but the correct body parts.

You might want to rethink this part.

[justaminuet.livejournal.com]

No, I don't.

[cherrycoloured.livejournal.com]

Are you confused on why I pulled out that part of your comment, or do you understand and just disagree with me?

[justaminuet.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling you don't understand my point, so I'm disagreeing. I wouldn't mind it if the character was trans, or a cross dresser. Actually, I'd love a well written trans character. But nine times out of ten, when a BL writer/artist creates an uke that looks super effeminate, and is constantly thrown into female clothes, it's just done for the hell of it. And that makes me feel like the writer just wrote the character as female as possible, but technically made said character a male. I'm not saying that there aren't feminine men out there, but as far as BL manga goes, it feels more like lazy writing and/or a discomfort or lack of knowledge about gay relationships.

Looking back on my original post, I suppose I could've made that clearer.

[(Anonymous)]

Yaoi is written by straight women for straight women, not gay men (that's bara). It always has been. That's not say that gay men or lesbian women can't enjoy it or be pissed off about it but they're not the designated audience for it. It really pisses me off when people expect it to reflect real life gay relationships in Japan or the USA. It's not supposed to. It's a fantasy of women written by women, not a reflection of reality.

It's a way to explore and possibly subvert women's roles in Japan. It's a way for them to explore their sexuality in a safe, somewhat distanced manner as even though the uke behaves like a girl, he has male parts and provides that necessary mental distance for women who require it. It's a stress relief valve.

I'm also tired of seeing people complain about the uke's sexual passivity. Guess what? It's a reflection of women having sex in Japan. The woman is supposed to lie there and let her partner do all the work. Want to learn more: go here http://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/77uoy/sex_and_flirting_in_japan/
and http://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/77uoy/sex_and_flirting_in_japan/c05wtg8

It explains it pretty well, so I'm not going to re-iterate it here.

[childings.livejournal.com]

I'm also tired of seeing people complain about the uke's sexual passivity. Guess what? It's a reflection of women having sex in Japan. The woman is supposed to lie there and let her partner do all the work.

Are you seriously trying to say that these traditionally prescribed sex roles for women are alien to those of us in the Western world because... what

Also, changing the sex of the people in the relationship so that they are both men does little to subvert women's roles, if anything it reaffirms them. And that's not okay.

[cherrycoloured.livejournal.com]

Japanese sex roles are a little different. Japanese women are expected to not move at all, really, and to be quiet, where as the stereotype for Western women to follow is submissive, but still showing their partner how good they feel as a sort of ego boost. At least, this is what I've gathered through the internet and Cosmo xD But yeah, they're both pretty misogynist.

I completely agree with that second sentence though!

[cherrycoloured.livejournal.com]

First off, it's meant for women in general, not just straight ones. I don't think it must reflect real gay relationships, since obviously the vast majority of BL writers/artists don't have that experience and this is a fictional story. However, I think that it could stand to have less misogyny and homophobia, and just in general be more respectful, even if it's a fantasy.

I guess I'm just a little confused about Japanese culture here. I'd think that they'd want the men to be feminine but not in a terribly stereotypical way, to keep that sense of distance but also making the semi-self insert character like a stronger, cooler version of themselves. Kind of like a Mary-Sue, I guess, but I'm meaning that in a positive way. I think there's a way to make the uke girly and to make him have weakness without resorting to offensive stereotypes, and that sexism in a culture shouldn't be used as an excuse for it.

Also, I've noticed that recently, more BL manga is moving towards more boyish/cool-feminine uke. However, that could just be what I've come across and not reflect what the majority of what's being published at the moment.

[cherrycoloured.livejournal.com]

I get that now. Thanks for clarifying, and I think I actually agree with that. When the character isn't explicitly called a crossdresser, or at least something that makes it clear that the author is aware that the character is presenting in a way that's unusual for their gender, it bugs me. A man who walks around in women's clothes will be treated differently in most mainstream places, and when a character like that is just accepted as normal by everyone, it kind of rings false to me.

Also, while I love my long-haired pretty boys, men are social conditioned to act different than women, so even a sensitive, cute guy will have taken that it and it'll factor into who he is. Even if he chooses to go against that, it's still a decision he's making while aware of what's expected.

Some manga with a really good trans characters are Paradise Kiss and Wandering Son/Hourou Musuko, if you want to check them out. Neither are BL, but I'm a big fan of the former and I've liked what little I've read so far of the latter.

[lovegonnadrown.livejournal.com]

yes, you do.

some females in real life don't have the "correct" body parts but that doesn't make them any less female. i think everyone understands your point but you're phrasing it insensitively.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh boo fucking hoo. I obviously don't speak for every trans person out there but it seriously pisses me off when everyone acts like they need to walk on eggshells around us just in case they say something "wrong". Jesus H Christ we're not going to bite off people's heads if they word something strangely. It's obvious what justaminuet meant. There's no reason to call them out for something so petty.

[lovegonnadrown.livejournal.com]

uh

wow ok

i just thought i'd politely point out how some people might be hurt by that because language does matter and it actually was an insensitive thing to say? ok

[marshwiggledyke.livejournal.com]

I, another trans person, found it offensive. Thank you for speaking up.

[(Anonymous)]

Fuck off back to your hole then, you fucking crybaby.

[marshwiggledyke.livejournal.com]

u mad?

[(Anonymous)]

asshole

[twenty-rooks.livejournal.com]

OTOH Manga is a very, how should I put it, "emotional" school of drawing. Characters are often drawn to reflect personality, and submissiveness and insecurity in a character can often be reflected in stature to strengthen the impression of the character's personality in the reader's mind.

I mean, there are a lot of different types of BL, and the ones you talk about are those who really really like the power differences, I think.

Personally I find the breaking of gender expectations in a character very appealing, and don't think non-traditional behaviour and/or appearance make a character less of a man or a woman.