fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1773 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1773 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 055 secrets from Secret Submission Post #253.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

It's a fine line to walk. I agree that the way some people voice it is pretty gross, but at the same time, the reasons for the "uke" archetype are preeeeetty problematic, too. It's a matter of that whole "so which of you is the woman?" sort of attitude towards gay couples, for one thing. The idea is that a relationship requires someone to fulfill the traditional "man" role and someone to be the traditional "woman". If they're both dudes, there's no actual woman, so clearly that means that the one who takes it up the ass must display these characteristics that are associated with femininity so the relationship has a "man" (seme) and a "woman" (uke). The problem isn't that men can't ever display these sorts of personality traits (or have less "masculine" body types, for that matter), that's not why most people complain. It's more because these traits are associated with women, so they're given to the "uke" to make him fulfill the "female" gender role. Which is both sexist and a very poor representation of homosexual males.

Though I agree that the arguments presented can get to be rather iffy in how they're worded in this regard.

Yaoi is written by straight women for straight women, not gay men (that's bara). It always has been. That's not say that gay men or lesbian women can't enjoy it or be pissed off about it but they're not the designated audience for it. It really pisses me off when people expect it to reflect real life gay relationships in Japan or the USA. It's not supposed to. It's a fantasy of women written by women, not a reflection of reality.

It's a way to explore and possibly subvert women's roles in Japan. It's a way for them to explore their sexuality in a safe, somewhat distanced manner as even though the uke behaves like a girl, he has male parts and provides that necessary mental distance for women who require it. It's a stress relief valve.

I'm also tired of seeing people complain about the uke's sexual passivity. Guess what? It's a reflection of women having sex in Japan. The woman is supposed to lie there and let her partner do all the work. Want to learn more: go here http://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/77uoy/sex_and_flirting_in_japan/
and http://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/77uoy/sex_and_flirting_in_japan/c05wtg8

It explains it pretty well, so I'm not going to re-iterate it here.

Yeah, it may be written by straight women for straight women, but that doesn't mean it isn't tiresome to see how far from the truth it pretty much always is and watch it use the exact same formula over and over. No, it doesn't have to be realistic, but it'd be a nice change as opposed to telling the same story with minor variations over and over.

The problem with all of that is how misogynistic it tends to be. Female readers are supposed to identify with the uke because, despite being a man, he cries a lot, is often immature, clingy, and even bratty and selfish, etc? That's...kind of problematic.

I never said a thing about the uke's sexual passivity, and the passiveness doesn't bother me in that regard. What does bother me is all the "no, stop!" "/seme doesn't stop" "WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP I TOLD YOU TO STOP" "you liked it" "/pout" crap that happens so often. That happens in hentai, too. It's creepy there, too.

[ SECRET POST #1773 ]

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