fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #1788 ]

[ SECRET POST #1788 ]

⌈ Secret Post #1788 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Star Trek: The Next Generation]

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05.

[Avril Lavigne; Miho Fukuhara; Supercell]

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06. [repeat]

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10.

[Doctor Who]

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12. [repeat]

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14.

[Assassin's Creed]

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15.

[Puss In Boots]

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16.

[Parenthood]

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[Supernatural]

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19.

[Mortal Kombat]

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[Greek Myths (Hermes), Allstate (Mayhem)]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

22. [SPOILERS for something, OP did not specify]

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23. [SPOILERS for something, OP did not specify]

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24. [SPOILERS for modern warfare 3]

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25. [SPOILERS for Marble Hornets]

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26. [SPOILERS for Pandora Hearts]

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27. [SPOILERS for Dexter]

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28. [SPOILERS for Alien Nine Emulators ]

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29. [SPOILERS for Batman: Arkham City]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

30. [TRIGGER WARNING for pedophilia]

[Chrono Crusade]

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31. [TRIGGER WARNING for incest]

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32. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]

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33. [TRIGGER WARNING for eating disorders]

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34. [TRIGGER WARNING for abuse]

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35. [TRIGGER WARNING for eating disorders]

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[House]

36. [TRIGGER WARNING for depression/suicide]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #255.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

You have a point. I'm fascinated by superheros and I have my favorites but the medium is deeply handicapped by it's serial nature. Characters never progress naturally, development just happens all at once when new writers come abroad. The same lessons are learned over and over again. Villains are allowed to hurt countless peope because they are popular with readers, so the superheros seem ineffective. Supporting characters must remain so the superhero is never allowed to form new (possibly more interesting) relationships. Continuity is wiped out every few years. Issues that might be intensely interesting to delve into (ex Superman's immortality) can never be done to satisfaction but comic book time is static (except maybe in offshoot books that don't count).
These are the reasons I stick to graphic novels and non-superhero books: they usually all have an climax in mind. Also, your Gary Stu point is accurate though I guess that isn't a terrible thing. However, it's interesting to nite that comic books (which are targeted at white males) are basically the same as soap operas (female demographic) but the latter gets more ridicule.

While I agree that a lot of superhero comics do what you mentioned there are a lot of good writers in comics books who manage to give stories and characters a lot of depth and satisfying relationships, etc. Of course then the comic companies decide to retcon/reboot everything but yeah... Satisfying superhero comics do exist.

these are all good points! much more level-headed than OP.

the way i see it is that sometimes you want some sort of escape into a world filled with the gary-stu variety, just because you enjoy it. this is like how some people don't like reading at all because they can't process words into visual images, stuff like that. there will always be personal reasons for liking or disliking something, but i don't think its exactly fair to call them a waste of paper. the same thing could be said about fantasy novels, romance novels, crime novels, etc. disney also falls under the same category.

god, what a waste of film! we could be documenting real people with REAL PROBLEMS but instead we're too busy watching some chick who pretends to be a guy get ready to defeat the huns!

I wouldn't say characters never progress naturally.

With superhero comics, there's the unique experience where you really have to take each story (if not each issue, since decompressed storytelling has led to the need to read three-to-six consecutive issues to get a whole story these days) on its own merits, while keeping in mind what has happened before, but not judging the story you're currently reading by previous and future stories.

If that makes any sense at all.

I think of character growth, I think of, say, Booster Gold. Who came on the scene an irresponsible jock, formed a wacky friendship in which he was the more stable member, stayed relatively childish while his friend (suddenly, I'll admit) matured into an adult, lost his friend, grew the hell up, and after a very long while, got over the loss enough to internalize it and move on.

There are some sudden stops-and-starts-and-reverses in Booster's growth, but especially in the first two arcs of his second series, there's a linear pattern to it--he goes from hurting and selfish to willing to give up everything he wanted for the chance to save his friend again, fails, and grows as a hero and an adult. It's moving as hell.

But it's serialized fiction, and as you say, the characters aren't allowed to go forward as much as they might. Reboots will happen, new writers will come on board who want to write the character the way they remember them, or the way they always envisioned them, or who don't want to write the character at all and just go through the motions to collect a paycheck. But within that, there can be some really wonderfully done stories.

And barring that, there's always elseworlds and AU's. Those are actually allowed to end sometimes.

I'd like to second this comic, and point to one James Barnes. I mean, the guy started off in the Golden Age as a typical teenage sidekick (Bucky to Captain America, if anyone was wondering). Then Brubaker got on board writing him after he was supposedly killed off way back when, and he's been one of the most deep, moving characters I've ever read. He's complex, he has issues to deal with in the best way he knows how, and sometimes he still screws up in MAJOR ways. I mean, I'm not saying his storyline always makes -sense-, exactly, but for the most part, his growth as a character has been linear and he's matured considerably from his days as Bucky. He's been through a lot, and that's reflected well in the character, I think.

I think in his case, though, it helps some that Bucky's not really been a "major" character in the MarvelU until recently, so while other writers have taken him on in recent years, his story has really been Brubaker's, who even did a fantastic job of reworking his Golden Age canon into a more believable backstory without completely retconning it.

Er, long comment is long. But yes, I agree--some characters DO mature and develop naturally, even despite comics' serial nature. It just takes the right character and the right writers.

Oh my, yes! The owner of my LCS just handed me some Captain America & Bucky last week, and I'm doing my best to collect back-issues and all now because Brubaker does a fantastic job.

And you're exactly write--it's much easier for characters who aren't major players to grow honestly and have subtle nuances. Batman can never really learn any lesson for good. Oh, maybe this week he'll finally learn that he needs to be able to rely on others and also, he can totally trust his back-up, and maybe just once in a while he should actually make his face muscles smile or something...but he'll have to learn the True Meaning of Christmas (or whichever lesson it is) all over again next year. (Man, ever seen any Christmas-related Batman thing? I think there's a contest to make each one even more depressing.)

Which isn't to say that I don't still enjoy Batman. Just that he doesn't have the opportunities lesser-known characters do. (One reason JLI worked so well was they were dealing with a bunch of B-listers and the writers could go nuts.)

"and maybe just once in a while he should actually make his
face muscles smile or something..."

This made me laugh more than it should have. But yes, this!

Oh man, isn't Captain America & Bucky amazing? If you're looking for back-issues, I'm pretty sure that most of the last few arcs of Captain America are out in trade paperback now, or are at least in hardback and should be in paperback soon. (I think "The Trial of Captain America" just came out, and there's one more arc after that to get you up to date, I believe.) All of "The Death of Captain America" and "Road to Reborn" are pretty important if you wanna know more about Bucky, as is "Winter Soldier: Winter Kills vols. 1 & 2" (which are both available in the same paperback). That's mostly recent stuff, as in the last several years, but Brubaker's just such a good writer that I can't help but rec all of it. "Winter Kills" is my favourite, though. Oh, and if you want something interesting and fun to read, check out "Avengers/Invaders"; you'll get to see how James-as-Bucky compares to James-as-Cap, and it really highlights how much he's changed and grown over the years.

Heh, you got me started. Bucky is my favourite character; I can't help it. ^^;;; *shuts up and slinks away*

This, right here, is exactly the thing that makes it hard for me to get into superhero comics - the characters are never allowed to develop and progress, or if they are, their character development only lasts until they decide to retool the character. Watching the characters learn the same lessons over and over again just got too frustrating and repetitive for me. I don't know how that can be fixed though....

Well, if you glance at the three comments above you, a lot of that can be fixed by reading about lesser-known heroes, who have more room to grow and cultural icons like Superman, Batman, and Spiderman. Or by just enjoying a story-arc for what it is.

Might I suggest the current Daredevil series by Mark Waid. It's only in it's fifth issue, the art is gorgeous, you don't really need to know a thing about Daredevil or what's going on in the Marvel Universe to pick it up because Mark Waid knows how to tell a story for new readers and old readers. It's just a darned fun read. I don't know if Matt Murdock has learned these lessons before (having never read a Daredevil comic), but I'm having a great time reading about them now.

I think you've explained my personal disinterest in superhero comics really well. I love superheros, I'm a major fan of the DCAU and most of the better Marvel movies. I just...don't really care to get into comics.

The reasons you stated above were very much the reason I preferred DC's Earth-2 Universe over their more mainstream one, and I'm saying this as a 25 year old who only started reading superhero comics a few years ago. In that universe, the heroes (including Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman) were allowed to age in real time, get married, have kids of their own, and move on to OTHER things in their lives rather than stick to superheroics for all eternity. When their kids grew up, it was actually pretty interesting to read about how they handled being the children of legacy heroes. And yes, on Earth-2, the kids of superheroes were actually allowed to LIVE and didn't get blown up or murdered as plot devices to drive the superhero parents. Thank god DC decided to bring that universe back.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

[ SECRET POST #1788 ]

So I'm assuming you are talking about superhero comics, and in that case:

Re: So I'm assuming you are talking about superhero comics, and in that case:

Re: So I'm assuming you are talking about superhero comics, and in that case:

Re: So I'm assuming you are talking about superhero comics, and in that case:

Re: So I'm assuming you are talking about superhero comics, and in that case:

Re: So I'm assuming you are talking about superhero comics, and in that case:

Re: So I'm assuming you are talking about superhero comics, and in that case:

Re: So I'm assuming you are talking about superhero comics, and in that case:

Re: So I'm assuming you are talking about superhero comics, and in that case:

no subject

Re: So I'm assuming you are talking about superhero comics, and in that case: