[ SECRET POST #1798 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1798 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 08 pages, 196 secrets from Secret Submission Post #257.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not completely up to date on the manga (have only read the first few chapters of Fishmen Island) but I've always thought that his more misogynistic tendencies are held up as ridiculous.

He never gets the girl, and he's embarrassed at every opportunity in his attempts to get the girl. He's even endangered his nakama because of his views that women need to be protected (and the panel after that scene, where he's slumped in the hall, seemed to make it clear he realized just how much he'd fucked up).

When he acts like a gentleman (i.e. being polite and well-mannered) he's shown in a charming light. But when he turns that act into something about gender, when he acts like women need special treatment, the light he's shown in is instantly less flattering.

That said, I haven't been happy about the okama island stuff. Bon Clay was ridiculous, but every One Piece character is ridiculous. And Bon Clay still got to kick ass and take names and be a loyal, incredible character. The okama island crew, on the other hand, seem to be a bad punchline to a uncharacteristically (for Oda) mean-spirited joke. Now like I said, I'm not up to date on the manga, and maybe Oda's already turned things on their head (I've learned never to try to second guess him, he always has a plan and it's never the one you'd expect). I honestly think it was a really good idea to have Sanji spend his 2 years learning to deal with his issues with women, and surrounding him with men who act in a stereotypically feminine fashion was an interesting way of exploring that. But it ended up being awkward and kind of uncomfortable. :(

I will say though, I am baffled by women who consider Sanji to be romantic. I adore him as a character, in the same way I adore all the Straw Hats, but there are a few girls on Tumblr who seem to think Sanji's behavior towards women makes him the ultimate romantic and something they desperately want in a man. I just can't get my head around that.

[(Anonymous)]

I like that the sexist "chivalrous" character who consistently treats women differently actually has an opposite-minded character to clash with. That's already more commentary on sexism than you'd get in most shonen.

[(Anonymous)]

This is very true. And often the only time Sanji's special treatment towards the female is accepted, it's made very clear that Nami is taking advantage of his stupidity.

[larkworth.livejournal.com]

I always saw his relationship with Nami as being sort of mutually beneficial. I think they both know deep down that nothing is going to happen between them... but they both enjoy the attention.

[tommyrotter.livejournal.com]

I agree with your comment! Like, obviously, Sanji is a flawed character whose flaws are def. problematic and there is no law that says people must like him for it/despite it, but I always thought the text was pretty clear about painting those things...negatively.

That said the island was played as waaaaay too much of a joke, which is a shame after how great Bon Clay and Iva are both as characters and with regards to their treatment in the text.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't mind the Okama Island, and I'm not really sure Sanji's issue is transphobia. I think he's more turned off that the okama have overtly male traits, like facial and leg hair, and horrible clothing than anything else. He's not all that polite to less attractive women in general (such as Kokoro). I think his issue was mainly finding them unnatractive, then being insulted when, instead of hitting on him, they all decided to turn him into an okama. However, I won't rule out Sanji being transphobic. He strikes me as very immature emotionally. He's spent his whole life out on the sea with a bunch of male cooks known for their foul tempers and fouler mouths. But he's learning. That's why I don't get why anyone would say Sanji disgusts them. His whole personality is based on emotional growth.

I see, if anything, that the okama are treated respectfully, as powerful characters. Emporio Ivankov saves Luffy's life and goes on to be a great friend of his. Bon Kurei is also a great friend of Luffy's. Okama save Sanji's life, even if he does make that strange comment of learning to "fly" from running away from him. It doesn't seem like Oda is trying to make a slur.

If anything, like you said, Sanji's the one being put down in every instance. He becomes utterly ridiculous every time he flirts with women. He's a complete loser around women. He's just an incredibly immature character and I think Oda uses that to show what is and isn't acceptable in his world.

[(Anonymous)]

But he's learning. That's why I don't get why anyone would say Sanji disgusts them. His whole personality is based on emotional growth.

What, exactly, has he learned (except new fighting skills) and how has he grown emotionally? I've read the whole series and while I like pretty much everything else, anything with Sanji just makes me both headdesk and facepalm. He's more tolerable when he's interacting with the guys and that's only because his whole pervert act with the girls disgusts me. If anything, he's worse than in the beginning which means that he hasn't learned a thing.