[ SECRET POST #1798 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1798 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 08 pages, 196 secrets from Secret Submission Post #257.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 1 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

13. http://i41.tinypic.com/240x84l.jpg

[margerydaw-s2.livejournal.com]

Not familiar enough with One Piece to know how true this is, but those are turn-offs for me, too.

[ionizable.livejournal.com]

haha. i think he was one of the first fictional characters i really irrationally hated for no good reason. and then later on i was like HA. THERE'S MY JUSTIFICATION. it has been a while since i was into one piece, though, but i don't remember any really bad transphobia? but then again, i haven't read the parts where he ends up with all those transgendered mermaids? or something??

[insanenoodlyguy.livejournal.com]

Sanji ends up on what is esentiall Tranny Island.

He gets sucked in.

The death of Luffy's brother snaps him out of it, but doesnt' get him off the island.

He literally learns to run on the sky to get away from the tranny's who endlessly run him down.

They later molest marines for him. he wishes damnation upon them and never looks back.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not really into One Piece, so I can't speak as a Sanji fan, but there are way worse characters than him that are popular. Why do people in fandom have to like characters that are good and 100% politically correct?

[margerydaw-s2.livejournal.com]

They don't have to, but is it really a surprise when people don't like sexist transphobic assholes?

[streetcake.livejournal.com]

His attitude always annoyed the hell out of me. I hate those male characters who are super nice to all the girls and flirt with them, while simultaneously being aggressive to other men like their trying to establish who's the "alpha male" or whatever.

[citrinesunset.livejournal.com]

Don't know the character in question, but for me, those things are major turn-offs, enough to ruin the character.

But there are things that don't phase me as much in fiction that bother other people. It really comes down to the individual, I think.

[(Anonymous)]

one man's sexism is another man's chivalry

there's a lot more to his character than "lol pervy for women" and "zomg trannies run away." and a lot more to his stint in Kamabakka than fleeing from crossdressers who wanted to force him to become a crossdresser.

if you've got a problem, blame Oda for playing into the "crossdressers just want to convert you" trope.

[margerydaw-s2.livejournal.com]

U mad?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not completely up to date on the manga (have only read the first few chapters of Fishmen Island) but I've always thought that his more misogynistic tendencies are held up as ridiculous.

He never gets the girl, and he's embarrassed at every opportunity in his attempts to get the girl. He's even endangered his nakama because of his views that women need to be protected (and the panel after that scene, where he's slumped in the hall, seemed to make it clear he realized just how much he'd fucked up).

When he acts like a gentleman (i.e. being polite and well-mannered) he's shown in a charming light. But when he turns that act into something about gender, when he acts like women need special treatment, the light he's shown in is instantly less flattering.

That said, I haven't been happy about the okama island stuff. Bon Clay was ridiculous, but every One Piece character is ridiculous. And Bon Clay still got to kick ass and take names and be a loyal, incredible character. The okama island crew, on the other hand, seem to be a bad punchline to a uncharacteristically (for Oda) mean-spirited joke. Now like I said, I'm not up to date on the manga, and maybe Oda's already turned things on their head (I've learned never to try to second guess him, he always has a plan and it's never the one you'd expect). I honestly think it was a really good idea to have Sanji spend his 2 years learning to deal with his issues with women, and surrounding him with men who act in a stereotypically feminine fashion was an interesting way of exploring that. But it ended up being awkward and kind of uncomfortable. :(

I will say though, I am baffled by women who consider Sanji to be romantic. I adore him as a character, in the same way I adore all the Straw Hats, but there are a few girls on Tumblr who seem to think Sanji's behavior towards women makes him the ultimate romantic and something they desperately want in a man. I just can't get my head around that.

[(Anonymous)]

I like that the sexist "chivalrous" character who consistently treats women differently actually has an opposite-minded character to clash with. That's already more commentary on sexism than you'd get in most shonen.

[tommyrotter.livejournal.com]

I agree with your comment! Like, obviously, Sanji is a flawed character whose flaws are def. problematic and there is no law that says people must like him for it/despite it, but I always thought the text was pretty clear about painting those things...negatively.

That said the island was played as waaaaay too much of a joke, which is a shame after how great Bon Clay and Iva are both as characters and with regards to their treatment in the text.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't mind the Okama Island, and I'm not really sure Sanji's issue is transphobia. I think he's more turned off that the okama have overtly male traits, like facial and leg hair, and horrible clothing than anything else. He's not all that polite to less attractive women in general (such as Kokoro). I think his issue was mainly finding them unnatractive, then being insulted when, instead of hitting on him, they all decided to turn him into an okama. However, I won't rule out Sanji being transphobic. He strikes me as very immature emotionally. He's spent his whole life out on the sea with a bunch of male cooks known for their foul tempers and fouler mouths. But he's learning. That's why I don't get why anyone would say Sanji disgusts them. His whole personality is based on emotional growth.

I see, if anything, that the okama are treated respectfully, as powerful characters. Emporio Ivankov saves Luffy's life and goes on to be a great friend of his. Bon Kurei is also a great friend of Luffy's. Okama save Sanji's life, even if he does make that strange comment of learning to "fly" from running away from him. It doesn't seem like Oda is trying to make a slur.

If anything, like you said, Sanji's the one being put down in every instance. He becomes utterly ridiculous every time he flirts with women. He's a complete loser around women. He's just an incredibly immature character and I think Oda uses that to show what is and isn't acceptable in his world.

[kryptoncat.livejournal.com]

(Aaah, most of the people in this thread don't read One Piece. Sadness and dismay!)

Back when I was just getting into One Piece, I thought for sure Sanji's character arc would involve him rethinking his stance on chivalry and growing as a person, or at least showing the audience why he acts that way. I've kinda fallen out of love with OP lately, and the stagnation (even regression) of this character after the Impel Down arc is partially why.

(And no, I don't think the char in my icon is like Sanji in their treatment of women; even though they seem to be the only two main characters in the story with a sex drive.)

[(Anonymous)]

I personally never liked Sanji. His 'flaw', unlike the others (Zoro getting lost, Nami being greedy) was a joke that got old very quickly.

He's actually losing alot of popularity from the newest arc. Where his stupid perverted thoughts actually endangered the fucking crew.
Personally I think it's reached a stage where Oda must be building up to some kind of big moment where Sanji finally hits an enemy who is also a woman. At least, that's the only way this character can be redeemed.

As for the trans stuff, I noticed that too. Bon Clay's depiction was...alright...because he was a hero and still is. But Sanji calling Okama-Island 'hell' and being horrible to the people who trained him. It comes off as very annoying, especially as Bon Clay and Iva (two 'okamas' as they were called) saved Luffy's life SEVERAL times during Impel Down and Marineford
(huh, I wonder if they'll meet Bon Clay again, and Luffy will call Sanji out on his shit, or be like 'Bon Clay is nakama. So treat him as such')

So yeah, here's hoping for positive character development. Because if Sanji continues to be this shitty, well...it spoils the dynamics of the crew.

[(Anonymous)]

tbh, I just don't think Oda likes Sanji much. I remember someone linked to something a while ago where Oda said some sort of negative things about him, but I can't find it at the moment...

[dark-kaomi.livejournal.com]

Personally I think it's reached a stage where Oda must be building up to some kind of big moment where Sanji finally hits an enemy who is also a woman. At least, that's the only way this character can be redeemed.

He is. Oda stated at last Jump Festa "Isn't there something strange about Sanji?" Or something to that effect. And while for most author's this isn't much Oda also spelled out a very large spoiler for the series that nobody believed and ended up happening. I still find that really hilarious.

[(Anonymous)]

I only watched like 12 episodes ages ago and read a couple manga chapters, but the impression I got from that series is that everything is so over the top and ridiculous it borders on offensive, flaws and strengths alike.

But yeah, I wanted to punch Sanji in a face anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

lol in a face any face

I meant *in the face*.

[insanenoodlyguy.livejournal.com]

The manliest character in the entire damn show hands down is a cross dresser in a horrible ballet outfit.

[(Anonymous)]

Sanji's love of ladies never bothered me until it comes to the point where his life and his crew is at risk because he 'won't hit a girl'. Even in dire situations he would be useless if a woman is involved.

However all things considered I actually like Sanji. As with all One Piece characters he has more depth to him than his quirks. I noticed a lot who commented on this secret said they don't read One Piece or know his character, but you really have to read One Piece to understand that almost every character has extreme quirks.

I'm sick of everyone expecting that everything must be politically correct... the world is not black and white. Oda was not trying to send out some anti-transgender message. It's just that Sanji's biggest love in life is pretty women -- to an extreme level. Of course he freaked out by giant ugly-men in dresses chasing him down trying to smother him. It was more a joke against his character than anything else.

If your into One Piece you probably should get used to stuff like this.

Even Luffy, Mr. I-must-protect-my-nakama, himself wanted to fight Zoro to the death because anyone who gives him food couldn't possibly be an enemy with ulterior motives (chapter 112). Of course Luffy's love of food is for comedy, like Sanji's love of women, because that's how OP rolls.

[relmneiko.livejournal.com]

I always thought Sanji had some serious unresolved issues around women that are the source of all his craziness. Considering his backstory only goes back to his time on that restaurant ship and not to where he was born I anticipate it's gonna get dealt with in the future.

At any rate I don't think the manga endorses Sanji's attitude; it pretty clearly paints it as a problem. And the rest of the crew don't really put up with Sanji's shit... or, like Nami and Robin, they just take advantage of him. That's probably why I can continue liking him. It's also fun to fuck with his head in fic XP

[(Anonymous)]

I was thrilled when Sanji ended up on okama island because I thought he would learn. ...not so much. I´m trying not to give up hope, but it´s hard.

[(Anonymous)]

not too sure why you thought he would learn anything. When okama are included in a manga, you know they're going to get made fun of. tbh, I can't really think of many manga with okama where people don't say or do something at least mildly transphobic towards them

also: http://onepiece.wikia.com/index.php?title=Okama&image=Emporio_Ivankov-27s_Dancers-png

You really think Oda's goal was going to be to make some kind of deep, social justice-y commentary?

Or did he just want to make some cheap jokes?