[ SECRET POST #1810 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1810 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 230 secrets from Secret Submission Post #259.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 1 2 3 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fearless-rabbit.livejournal.com]

I've already dealt with the funeral thing- my girlfriend and I have decided that it's not a good idea for me to go to family events anymore until her mom comes around. I sort of regret bringing that up here now, because I wasn't meaning to move the conversation over to myself, just giving an example of homophobia hiding behind a reason. I think a lot of gay people have experienced this in some way lately. Now that it's becoming less socially acceptable to be openly homophobic, people very often justify treating queers and straights differently by having some rule around that affects one of those groups more than the others.

I guess what I was trying to say is, that most of the people who are really upset about the Frederator stuff are queer people (mostly women) or straight people that are really passionate about equality and stuff. Most of these people are going to have some experience like this in their own lives, or if they haven't, someone they really care about has. It's ok if you think that the Frederator stuff wasn't ALL homophobia, but if you're dealing with people who do think it's all homophobia and are upset by it, maybe keep in mind that they've probably personally experienced I Can't Believe It's Not Homophobia and they're seeing similarities.

Anyway. Looking at the exact lines.

"In this episode Marceline hints that she might like Princess Bubblegum a little more than she'd like to admit."

That's exactly what happened in the episode. Friendship or romance, that was pretty much the exact point of her song, and the point of their subplot in the episode. And yes, I know that canonically it's almost definitely just friendship.

"Maybe a little more than Finn... [fanart] do you see where I'm going with this?"

The "maybe" there makes it look like it's speculation and not a sign from the higher-ups. If the blog is there to talk about the fandom, then covering what the fans are speculating about is not inappropriate. Think about it in the context of another ship. If they were talking about fan speculation over Marceline/Finn after "Go With Me", would that be inappropriate? I never thought they were talking about "this is actually going to be in the show", but just validating that people shipped it and that was it okay. It meant a lot to me personally.

But I can see that it might be a little unclear, especially to people who don't know much about fandom and shipping. I get why they would rather have a "some of you think" somewhere in there! I just don't understand why deleting the video entirely and firing a dude is better than taking it down until a "some of you think" can be added in, and then putting it back up. I think if they ONLY didn't want it to seem like canon, they could have taken it down, left a message that they're cool with Marceline/Bubblegum but don't want to sound like them becoming a couple is creator intent, and that the video is going to be back once a small clarification is added. If the video came back pretty much the same except for a "some of you think", then I don't think anybody would have gotten angry.

[fearless-rabbit.livejournal.com]

(sorry this got so long, here's the rest)

Do you know much about the reaction after? I feel like maybe the reaction after is part of why people are still angry. There was a TON of fan response from queer people, talking about how it meant a lot to have a queer ship openly acknowledged. Some asked for the ship to be canon. Most just wanted the ship to be treated like any other ship and not get censored. (The Finn ships can't both happen, and neither is particularly censored, for example.) Some of them talked about growing up gay, and feeling like they had to make a choice between being true to themselves, or being an okay, normal person. Some people talked about REALLY bad stuff that happened in their youth. (Disclosure: I wrote one of these responses, but it was far from the only one.) Some of these were on tumblr, and some of these were reblogs-with-commentary of posts originally by Fred. If you're not a tumblr person, Fred would have been able to see posts that were reblogs-with-commentary of his own posts.

And Fred DID see some of those posts! He responded to several that were about shipping freedom and that sort of thing (one reply that described the Marceline/Bubblegum fanart as "spicy", when the ones that were shown on the segment were... um... not.) He didn't respond to one real-life-gay post.

I don't think I'm an entitled person, and I didn't feel butthurt that my own post didn't get a reply. I'm kinda balls at writing, so mine was far from the best. But I think it shows something that ALL the real life gay posts got ignored. Not even a "I'm sorry, because the video implied that the relationship would be happening on the show, MY higher-ups aren't okay with it." Either Fred didn't know how to respond, or Fred thought that not one real life gay message was worthy of a response.

I don't want to sound like an angry SJ warrior or anything! I'm happier when I'm calmer and I try to have a discussion, so I've been doing that more than just blaaaargh rage lately. And please don't think I'm angry at you personally, or at your position. I guess just... it's hard not to know that gay people, especially gay children, can face a lot of pressure to be straight and don't always have good and varied representations of gay people to help counteract that. I think it's really not hard to know that if you're working in anything media related and you've got even the most passing concern for gay people not hating themselves. So maybe there IS a good reason not to come off like the show you represent isn't treating same-gender love like a taboo? I feel like maybe not caring at all in a situation like this is also kind of a bad thing for Fred to have done, if that's what he did.