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Since people pointed out Saturday isn't enough time to see what LJ is doing with this or about this, moved the potential moving date to New Years' - 1/1/2012.

[Poll #1805208]

The other poll is closed and this one will be open until Dec 31st! You can edit your vote by going here.

As a note, I'm completely willing to either stay or move. Updating the comm is easy enough for me either way.

1 - It's not only about subject lines. Others have written up potential problems better than I could:
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=7005874#t7005874
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=6261682#t6261682
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=7952050#t7952050

2 - For those worried about possibly needing to make DW accounts to comment, if a move happens: you don't need one! OpenID will let you comment as an LJ user (in the same way Facebook users can comment on LJ).

3 - For those worried about missing updates: I can crosspost to LJ to let you know a post is up (with a handy link over to it), I don't mind that (it's like a minute of extra work, no problem) - if the DW move happens though, the comments would be over there.

4 - Apparently, this is what we're getting next year.

5 - I'm aware workarounds are available - but those (or so I hear?) won't stay available for long. Also, those layouts have their own bugs. If someone can actually supply me with workable code that doesn't make long threads unreadable to change the layout, I'll give it a try.

6 -

raemia has an FAQ up here: http://raemia.livejournal.com/18347.html

7 - Tried the LJ workaround, give me your thoughts? Also contains links to what FS would look like on DW. Feedback on either/both?

8 - http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/811020.html?thread=511056908#t511056908 A good summary of the whole thing here by

demarafis.

Today's post is up below!

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Everything seems like it's spaced weird and is bigger. While it's not giving me a headache or anything, it does feel like my normal position is too close to the screen or something. Like that weird feeling you get when you read something in wide print for a while, then switch back to normal size. Is it the same for you, or is it something else that is bothering you?

It's that way for me too.

Except that zooming out (leaning back farther than usual) doesn't fix it because of the brightness.

I honestly have no idea what it is. I thought at first maybe it was the extra whiteness because of the spacing but I spend a lot of time on a couple of other sites that have a lot of white background and they don't affect me. Someone on another comm was speculating that it's a combination of the layout and the colours and the font size. I do know I find it a lot harder to focus on the screen though, my vision keeps blurring as I read - thank goodness for spellcheck or this would likely be unreadable.

All I know is that I can read a maximum of about two pages of comments (less if there's a lot of threads I need to waste time expanding and so on) and then I have to go away again.

In comms with large discussions and lots of long threads, like this one, that means it's just not really possible to follow anything. I've seen quite a few people complaining about headaches or migraines caused by the layout though and I can only assume that there are others who aren't commenting on the issue simply because they're not willing to take the time and risk a headache, so there has to be something about it that is a problem.

If it was just the subject lines and the threads and such that would make the site less functional and more awkward to browse but I'd probably put up with it, but this isn't something I can put up with.

At least I can read a teeny bit before having to close the window. I imagine the people who are finding it a migraine trigger aren't willing to even risk that. I know I sure as hell wouldn't be.

I'd be totally fine with LJ making the layout optional or better yet making the view in my style thing a free feature so people could choose. And if I used LJ the way I used to (mainly for reading things) it wouldn't be so bad since my flist looks fine, but mostly I use comms now that are focussed on interactivity amongst members.

I can't believe no one participating in the beta had this issue (in fact apparently most of the people who commented on the beta disliked the changes - not sure why you'd bother with a beta test if you're going to ignore the FB you get, but whatever) so I can only assume that the people running it didn't care about the problem or were too lazy to try and fix it. Maybe they figured since it's a minority of people that they can afford to lose the people that the site affects - I hope for them they can. I don't wish LJ any ill. But boy am I glad I treated myself to a permanent account over at Dreamwidth in their sale!

I treated myself to a permanent account over at Dreamwidth in their sale!

*perks up ears* Oh? When did this sale happen???

A few months ago. They released a couple of hundred permanent accounts in batches of 50 at 6 hourly intervals over one day to make it fair for all timezones.

I stayed up til about 6am because I missed the first batch and bought myself one with some of my birthday money and until this 'update' I was happily splitting my time between the two sites.

Huh. Just got myself some paid time on DW since I myself were having headaches. In fact, I can feel an incoming headache right now. Will catch you on DW, maybe? =D

I wouldn't be surprised if the discomfort is based on a combination of those things: the awkward spacing, the whiteness, the color choice being bright blue everywhere... which is actually kind of weird because I remember the site being in a much darker blue? Like, it had that slate blue ish color on the left side for the longest time. I wonder if some of the annoyance would be alleviated if they went to a darker blue, and made the text size changeable. Which might actually be a thing they do later down the line! I haven't been on my account in ages, but I remember that at least back in 2006 it was possible to use older styles (like the sidebar one) even though the site was normally in some totally different style.

Although later on in your comment you mention this being a possibility but it being a paid feature only? Well, there was another comment that said that LJ was making more revenue from advertisements instead of their paid users, so there might still be a chance they'll opt to let that feature be for everyone again.

I am sincerely sorry that you and others have to go through such discomfort with these changes, but I like the plan of holding out and seeing if LJ gives its users more options before instantly jumping ship. Admittedly, I might be optimistic because I'm remembering how they used to be in the past and there's a good chance LJ isn't like that anymore...

If you want to see a screenshot of how things used to look, search engine caches and web.archive.org should have public views of journals.

Basically, everything IS a lighter shade of blue. Also, the dates for expanded comments are light blue on lighter blue =.=

If you're a paid user there's a nice little ticky box in the navigation bar which says something like 'view comms in my style' (can't say exactly what it says as I'm not paid and don't have it) but I always used that before I went unpaid anyway since I swear some of the comms I follow were styled by colourblind chimps or at the very least people wearing sunglasses!

I voted for the wait and see option on the last poll. I don't think that a knee-jerk reaction is necessarily the best option and if they do something to address the complaints then obviously not moving is the least troublesome option for everyone, but having seen the complete non reaction to the (literally) tens of thousands of comments about the changes on the various official comms, I wouldn't hold my breath. Also the fact that every time people complain about anything the LJ staff seem to react (at least some of them) by mocking the people complaining doesn't bode well - I mean I'm sure everyone here has worked somewhere where they thought some of their clients/customers were idiots, but you don't say it out loud. That LJ staff seem to do this all too often says something about the corporate culture and how they view their users IMO.

What I think is worse than the fact it's making some people ill is that people who use software to read out the text because they're blind are apparently also affected.

I may be missing something but I can't see any added functionality with this change. It seems to have removed some functions (thread, preview, subject lines) and made it a lot more awkward to access if you have limited connectivity or are using a mobile device, but only added aesthetic things. I don't understand why they would want to make their site do *less* things...

Also very glad for email notifications lol. It means I can keep replying without having to spend any more time here than necessary.

Hmm, they might just hide the option for non-paid users? But yeah, I think they definitely should make it an option for everyone, and it should be an easy to find option, too. User accessibility should be important!

Well, but didn't the change only just come about recently? Like, it definitely wasn't around on Monday. And it does take a while to code stuff, and do bug testing and stuff, so I do still think that even with tens of thousands (and I can believe this number, haha) of complaints it's not totally weird that they haven't done anything just yet. However, the mocking IS kind of worrisome. :/ I mean, you just don't do that. You can explain why you think your customers are wrong as long as you're polite and non-insulting about it, but seriously, being a jerk just makes people more angry and it makes them even less likely to consider putting up with the site anymore. And, of course, the more jerkish someone comes across as, they less likely they are to do us a favor by making the changes we want...

I quickly checked with my own speech program, and it thankfully didn't have any issue reading your comment (although I did notice that it pronounces lol like "LAL" which... pfft, okay). But then again, it's optional for me, and I usually can just point at what I want it to read, which is probably easier than someone who has to have it read the entire page before they know where they are. It's actually pretty hard to really mess up text-to-speech functionality, especially if the text is a normal font and isn't somehow a picture, so I'm hoping those who have issues don't have it too badly and that the issue resolves itself.

And I actually really, really agree with you here! While I don't necessarily mind the aesthetic changes (although I'm really unhappy with the weird big text, as I've mentioned before), I don't really... see the point in them. Why do we need our comments in big blue boxes again? What's the point of the numbers to change pages being in their own unique box, too? (You're boxing us in, LJ!!!) And the taking things away is a really good point. They've also made a lot of other things more difficult to navigate, like user pics, I've heard. And I'm not gonna lie, but that weird anonymous bag dude kinda rubs me the wrong way. Like, what was wrong with anonymous comments having no icon and taking up less space? Does this mean that normal accounts can't have no icons, either? I remember wandering around my first few years back in 02 and 03 without an icon and, I dunno, I thought that was okay, especially if maybe I didn't want to make some terrible picture or take something from the internet just to represent me. In fact, not having an icon was just as representable as having an icon, and it just made distinguishing anonymous comments from user-comments kinda faster and easier.

Haha, email notifications? Is it possible to temporarily use the site from your email nearly exclusively? Actually, wait, no, I just answered myself with that: it'd be pretty ridiculous having all the comments from F!S being in your email box if you just followed the entire post, and so you'd still need to go to the site to find individual conversations you'd have interest in following... so, hmm.

I don't mind that it might take a while to fix it so much as they've either failed to respond to or rejected most of the complaints. With as many people complaining about a handful of specific things as they have I think if they were planning to change things back/fix the issues/make the changes optional they would have *said* so. Whereas the only things they've really addressed is the lack of a preview button (we can now fix things after the event, which I guess puts us in line with LJ's philosophy ...) and the actual *bugs*. The lack of response coupled with the apparent lack of comprehension of why some people have issues (despite the fact that as the links in the post here show some people have explained those issues very clearly and concisely) doesn't fill me with confidence that they're going to do anything other than stubbornly ignore the problem and hope it eventually goes away - which of course it will because the people who can't use the new look comments or whose comms are just made too awkward to follow by it will leave and so the complaints will eventually stop. They haven't seemed to grasp that one of the reasons people are complaining so loudly is that we *don't really want to have to leave*.

Yeah you've just put your finger on why email isn't really an option. Since the layout limits my time on LJ it's the posts with lots of comments that are the issue and those are the very ones you really *don't* want to track via email. And of course with no subject lines gmail threads *all* the comments together in my inbox!

Gonna have to say, my hope's dwindling pretty fast in the face of this logic...

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Giving the LJ staff until the new year seems an acceptable time limit before we all just throw up our hands and leave.

I can at least sit in the comfort of moving not being a big deal for me. The only reason I'm still using LJ is for this comm, as I've abandoned my journal long ago for... well, for probably a reason that isn't too dissimilar to this one, haha.

Well I would be absolutely delighted to be proved wrong, but I'm not convinced it'll happen.

If the comm moves, brilliant; if it doesn't I'll go and look for the feed over on DW that someone mentioned. It won't be the same as I won't be able to interact over here, but it's better than nothing.

It's a pity the mod has to make the comment threads individually or the comm could easily be run on both since DW has a nice ticky box which you mark and it'll crosspost for you. Then no one would feel the need to get all up in arms like some of the people on both sides are here. I know this is business as usual for any debate on F!S but man there are some assholes coming out on both sides of the argument!

i get the feeling the developer cannot handle criticism.

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