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Since people pointed out Saturday isn't enough time to see what LJ is doing with this or about this, moved the potential moving date to New Years' - 1/1/2012.

[Poll #1805208]

The other poll is closed and this one will be open until Dec 31st! You can edit your vote by going here.

As a note, I'm completely willing to either stay or move. Updating the comm is easy enough for me either way.

1 - It's not only about subject lines. Others have written up potential problems better than I could:
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=7005874#t7005874
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=6261682#t6261682
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=7952050#t7952050

2 - For those worried about possibly needing to make DW accounts to comment, if a move happens: you don't need one! OpenID will let you comment as an LJ user (in the same way Facebook users can comment on LJ).

3 - For those worried about missing updates: I can crosspost to LJ to let you know a post is up (with a handy link over to it), I don't mind that (it's like a minute of extra work, no problem) - if the DW move happens though, the comments would be over there.

4 - Apparently, this is what we're getting next year.

5 - I'm aware workarounds are available - but those (or so I hear?) won't stay available for long. Also, those layouts have their own bugs. If someone can actually supply me with workable code that doesn't make long threads unreadable to change the layout, I'll give it a try.

6 -

raemia has an FAQ up here: http://raemia.livejournal.com/18347.html

7 - Tried the LJ workaround, give me your thoughts? Also contains links to what FS would look like on DW. Feedback on either/both?

8 - http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/811020.html?thread=511056908#t511056908 A good summary of the whole thing here by

demarafis.

Today's post is up below!

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:shrugs: I don't have any reason to move because the new layout isn't effecting me negatively. In fact, I like it better in some ways. Why would I vote to move when things are working just fine for me? Personally, I dislike DW. I like LJ, and I want fsecrets to stay here. There isn't anything wrong with that.

Mostly, what I'm seeing is the people who want to move trying to insist on having their way even though the majority wants to stay and then trying to bully those who disagree with them or dismiss the opinions of those who want to stay. This is a poll. If the majority wanted to move, I'd live with it. But from what I've seen so far, they don't. We'll see as things continue, but as of now moving would show that fsecrets doesn't care about what the majority wants.

Yes, thank you. Choosing to move against overwhelming opposition is no better than the LJ staff. What's the point of a poll if you're going to ignore the results.

And I'm not having any problems with the new comment pages, either, FTR.

Exactly. If technophile had just moved everything, that would be one thing. She's the mod, so it would be her decision. But she put up a poll, so clearly this is going to be a community decision. Except that those who want to move don't like the decision the community seems to be making, so they are trying to force things to go their way by bullying and dismissing anything said by those who want to stay and basically being really irritating. I don't care if they want to move. That is their opinion, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I don't want to move, and that is an equally valid opinion that right now seems to be the majority.

Tech's a dude.

It's not bullying or dismissing opinions to correct misconceptions. You're right that there isn't anything wrong with being ignorant, but it's wrong to cling to your ignorance when the information's all laid out there for you to read, and when facing decisions that could cause trouble for other people. Which is what you did when you voted, and what the majority is doing now.

If you had a reason other than "you like reading FS in your friends list" (which you don't, because you were never able to do that), then sure it's possible you didn't vote in ignorance. But you haven't given any other reason.

You're right that there isn't anything wrong with being ignorant, but it's wrong to cling to your ignorance

So there's nothing wrong with being ignorant, except when there is? Gotcha. May the door smack you in the ass repeatedly on the way out.

Yeah, that's what I said...why's it upsetting you? You can do stuff that bothers other people in ignorance, but you'll get a different share of the blame if you keep doing it after you've been told.

Except this is VOTING IN A FUCKING POLL. It's expressing an opinion that I was flat-out ASKED TO EXPRESS. Even if I do so out of "ignorance", (which I'm not, there are several reason I'm opposed to moving to Dreamwidth), IT IS NOT HURTING ANYONE. What the living fuck should I be "blamed" for?

For inconveniencing other people because you were too lazy to inform yourself.

I'm not saying that's necessarily what you're doing, but when I see people posting reasons based on stuff that's just not true, I can't rule it out as a factor. I was curious about people's reasons so I asked up here (http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/811020.html?thread=510816524#t510816524); if you've got any to add to the list of "I don't like Dreamwidth", post away.

And yeah, it's a matter of inconvenience, not hurt. This is a just a small distraction for us all, so I wouldn't worry so much about blame one way or the other.

How the hell is someone else voting in a poll and/or posting a comment inconveniencing you? Or do I really not want to know just how much of an entitled diva the internet is capable of producing these days?

Have a look at the OP, Technophile posted a few links on why the redesign is so much trouble for so many people.

Ok, I think it's time for you to go to bed or something, because you're no longer making any sense. I can see why the new site design is an inconvenience. But when Technophile asks for the community's opinion and people express that opinion, how the hell is that an inconvenience? Because the majority of people voting don't agree with you? In that case, blame Technophile for even bothering to take a poll before moving the community, not the people who gave an opinion they were asked to give. Jesus fucking Christ.

Two options:
1) Avoids all the inconveniences introduced by release 88
2) Does not

Choosing one over the other affects how much inconvenience FS readers have to deal with. I'm not saying there aren't other annoying factors in DW or in LJ completely unrelated to release 88, but I began this thread with a post asking for reasons, so I could read about those other factors I didn't know about. There's no statement there for anyone to agree or disagree with.

And yes, I am furious with Technophile for making a poll! Furious!!

Edited 2011-12-23 07:23 (UTC)

I do have reasons. I don't like Dreamwidth. I like Livejournal. I like having all my fandom stuff in one place. I don't want to have to go over to Dreamwidth to comment on fandomsecrets. I think things are just fine the way they are and don't see any reason to move. And yes, I know I don't actually read FS on my flist. I connect to it from there, though, and I do see the first secret and the information on how many are left to post/the secrets not allowed/etc. And you know what, I'm not the only person who wants to stay here, clearly, and other people have other, equally valid reasons for wanting to stay.

I'm not saying that you are necessarily bullying. I do think you are being kind of dismissive, but some of the other commenters have been worse. This is a vote. People are allowed to vote for what they want. And whether you think people's reasons are valid or not, clearly the majority, at least so far, wants to stay here.

Frankly, we go through this every time, at least somewhere, when LJ changes something. And then people get used to the changes or LJ switches to something they are okay with. I'm sick of the drama. I like LJ. I'm fine with the changes and actually like most of them. I don't want to move. End of story.

I connect to it from there, though, and I do see the first secret and the information on how many are left to post/the secrets not allowed/etc

Technophile has already said that these things would remain the same if FS relocated.

You've repeatedly mentioned "the majority" and "this is a vote", and I'm not quite sure why. I can see which way the majority's voting, and if it weren't a vote, I wouldn't bother trying to get strangers to check their reasons. Information's important for voting, isn't it?

What part of "I like LJ, and I don't like Dreamwidth" is so FUCKING HARD for you to understand? That's where you're being dismissive. It's like you're only reading one or two sentences out of his/her post and refuting those and acting like the other reasons listed don't exist. That? Isn't doing you any favors because it's obvious you don't consider anyone else's opinion valid except your own.

What part of "I like LJ, and I don't like Dreamwidth" is so FUCKING HARD for you to understand?

Well, lots actually, now that you mention it. Some specifics would be nice...I don't know what there is to dislike about DW as I don't use it.

But I didn't dismiss that point - I didn't say anything about it one way or the other. There's information to pass on about the other points, so I did.

What kind of favours do you think I am looking for here? I asked for reasons, not favours.

Is this your tactic? Seriously? Being an obtuse, dismissive pain in the ass until people either agree with you just to shut you up or quit replying because you've given them a migraine? As other people have mentioned and as you've also dismissed, Dreamwith is both hideously designed and just as buggy as LJ.

Where are you getting that I've dismissed either of those things? I can't speak to them - as I just said above - so I didn't. If I used my DW account and thought its bugs were way less trouble than LJ's or had easy workarounds, I'd probably say something that might look like the dismissal you're complaining about. But I don't, and I haven't.

As for the design...DW is red, and LJ is blue. DW uses Verdana a lot, and LJ uses Arial. That's about all I can say about that. I think DW looks better, but it's totally subjective, they're pretty much the same anyway, and if you don't like how DW looks, that doesn't bother me. What more do you want me to say?

You're being dismissive by still insisting people are only voting to stay out of ignorance and not recognizing their preferences as valid because they're different from yours.

The first reply I read was from somebody who did not know what they were talking about. Pointing out the ignorance of that case doesn't mean that I'm rejecting all claims of "DW is ugly!"

Except when you keep pressing the issue of ignorance and how making a "misinformed" vote is somehow an "inconvenience".

You know what? Forget it. I should've been in bed an hour ago and your brand of stupidity is making my head hurt way worse than this new layout.

DA

So, what I'm getting your comment is that, basically, if someone doesn't want to move to dw [aka agree with you] they're automatically ignorant.

...Right. Make sure the door doesn't hit you in the ass - and may I never run across you on my own dw account.

I don't think they will move if the majority decides to stay.

But I think mirroring the posts could be a nice compromise with the members. This way anyone who wants to keep using LJ can do so, and those who prefer DW can go there.

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