fandomsecrets | (no subject)

Since people pointed out Saturday isn't enough time to see what LJ is doing with this or about this, moved the potential moving date to New Years' - 1/1/2012.

[Poll #1805208]

The other poll is closed and this one will be open until Dec 31st! You can edit your vote by going here.

As a note, I'm completely willing to either stay or move. Updating the comm is easy enough for me either way.

1 - It's not only about subject lines. Others have written up potential problems better than I could:
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=7005874#t7005874
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=6261682#t6261682
http://lj-releases.livejournal.com/71858.html?thread=7952050#t7952050

2 - For those worried about possibly needing to make DW accounts to comment, if a move happens: you don't need one! OpenID will let you comment as an LJ user (in the same way Facebook users can comment on LJ).

3 - For those worried about missing updates: I can crosspost to LJ to let you know a post is up (with a handy link over to it), I don't mind that (it's like a minute of extra work, no problem) - if the DW move happens though, the comments would be over there.

4 - Apparently, this is what we're getting next year.

5 - I'm aware workarounds are available - but those (or so I hear?) won't stay available for long. Also, those layouts have their own bugs. If someone can actually supply me with workable code that doesn't make long threads unreadable to change the layout, I'll give it a try.

6 -

raemia has an FAQ up here: http://raemia.livejournal.com/18347.html

7 - Tried the LJ workaround, give me your thoughts? Also contains links to what FS would look like on DW. Feedback on either/both?

8 - http://fandomsecrets.livejournal.com/811020.html?thread=511056908#t511056908 A good summary of the whole thing here by

demarafis.

Today's post is up below!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

"Social justice" is a totally generic term, though. Obviously someone who talks all over other people, or throws out death threats, that person's not someone you wanna be around.

Lots of people claim to stand for "equality" as well, and I'm sure some of them are assholes. Is there a set of "equality trolls" that I should be looking out for as well? Or, is it only white Western sociology students...I mean, social justice is pretty important to me - I've used indicators of social justice awareness when choosing a place to live and dealing with my employer - but I'm not a white sociology student, nor have I ever told someone to go kill themselves. Am I exempt? What are the exact qualifications for entry into the SJ trolls club?

Nope, I'd say you qualify for the troll club already by the way you're acting here. Dismissing other minority persons' concerns just because they doesn't jive with your own and all. You'll get along just fine on Dreamwidth.

^they don't. Damn I should've been in bed long ago.

The people voting to keep LJ are the majority, actually.

Wow. Reading comprehension fail on your part. I was talking about minorities (in this case

followthemoth being biracial and me being a lesbian) not thinking the social justice trolls on Dreamwidth are a good thing.

Oh well then if we are talking about RL social group minorities, then I am in a few as well, and you are dismissing my concerns, therefore by your own definition you are trolls too, and we're all three trolls. But beyond that, how does it go...I value social justice, so I'm an SJ troll, and you two are just...regular trolls?

Simply valuing social justice doesn't make you a troll. The way you're acting like a jackass about it here, and defending other jackasses as a "positive feature", and dismissing concerns from multiple people that no, social justice trolls really aren't positive? Totally makes you a troll. Please, do fuck off.

From one troll to another then, good night.

You seem on defensive with this comment, but I may be wrong. I wasn't intended to point fingers at you, or intend in anyways that you are a member of the group I have an issue with. My comment was to show you that the 'social justice scene' is not a positive, especially for minorities like myself. They are doing more harm than good for us.

I admit, 'social justice' just in itself or in RL is a very generic term. I was refering to what I shall call the 'socail justice scene' with is a phenomenon that has cropped up on LJ and DW. The 'social justice scene' gets diccussed a lot on here, so I figured you knew I was talking about the 'scene' as opposed to just general social justice. I apologize for any confusion.

To answer your question, you're part of the 'scene' if you are constantly ranting about ~isms even when it's unwarranted, calling anyone you disagrees with you racist/sexist/etc., and hypocritically disregarding and shaming minorities who don't share you views as 'traitors'. The 'social justice scene' is to civil rights, is essentially as PETA is to animal rights.

Hope this cleared things up a bit.

Wow, what a marvelously polite comment in such a messy thread, you have patience like a saint. The PETA analogy works very well for me, thanks.

My only exposure to DW is from very occasionally checking out scans_daily, which is committed to social justice, but has always seemed pretty reasonable, or at least not full of PETA-style trolls.

And I can certainly get defensive on this point because it honestly looks like a next door neighbour to complaints about "political correctness taking over" and taking away people's god-given rights to be racist/queerphobic etc. "Our children can't celebrate xmas at school!!" that kind of thing. The weirdly vague demonization of a generic term was making me very sceptical.

Glad I could help! I try to be civil and talk these things out to my best ability.

I can definitely see how the thing could misunderstood if you're not familiar with the intricacies of LJ/DW subcultures. I personally, haven't heard the term used outside of the internet, so for me I always associate it with the SJ 'scene'. For RL social issues/activism I've always referred to as civil rights.

To be honest, the critism of the SJ scene is kind of saying "PC has gone mad", but the SJ scene has gone so PC mad they've flipped back over to being plain bigoted again. "PC gone mad" can be legitimate criticism (for example, people afraid to say "black" so they say "African-American" even if the person they're referring has no connection to the US), and obviously it can be a illegitimate one too (like people upset cause others are refusing to tolerate bigotry towards certain groups; I assume from your comment this is what you're familiar with). In this case, it is.

I'm not sure what the whole Christmas thing is about, I've never heard to people being unable to celebrate anything over here anyways. I don't see what's wrong with kids celebrating holidays at school, assuming everybody has the right to celebrate (or choose not too) equally.

"ranting about isms when it's unwarranted"

...If someone is ranting, doesn't that generally indicate that they believe it IS warranted? I won't deny that sometimes people overreact, but the reverse is also true.

The fact that you don't think their complaint is valid doesn't automatically mean they're trolling, any more than someone disagreeing with one of your complaints (for example, thinking you're overreacting about the 'social justice scene') means they're right to think you're trolling.

I think you have some good points here, but assuming bad faith like that accomplishes nothing but shutting down conversation.

You have a valid point about the subjectivity of when or when not ~isms are warranted.

I don't think anyone who disagrees with me is trolling, sorry if I gave that impression from my previous comments. In general when it has come to wanky material on F!S even if I think someones a troll, I try and give them the benefit of the doubt.

That being said, if someone thinks something like being mixed-race means you're supporting cultural appropriation and therefore a racist, my thought process is going to be "not sure if trolling, or just really stupid."