[ SECRET POST #1852 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1852 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 09 pages, 205 secrets from Secret Submission Post #265.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Anti-feminist? Holy shit. The whole point of feminism is equality and women being able to make their own choices about their own lives. By acting like you have to justify the way you look, she's basically doing the exact opposite of feminism. Sorry you have to deal with that.

[sandor051.livejournal.com]

Look, what she was doing does sound silly, but choice feminism is some juvenile shit.

The personal is political, and every-time someone starts to talk about how a woman making a choice makes it an inherently feminist action I die a little inside.

Do you not instantly see how ridiculous this conception is?

[meadowphoenix]

I think you're missing the point. It's not that making a choice is inherently feminist. It's that criticizing a choice a woman makes and saying that they should have made a different choice (in order to not fail womankind or whatever) is paternalistic and therefore inherently anti-feminist.

I'm sure you see instantly how ridiculous either of these phrases are: "It's shameful how women still wear make-up" or "A real woman wouldn't be caught dead without make-up." Especially when these sentiments are devoid of any thought for individual desires or are made to be a judgement on someone's standing as a woman.

[sandor051.livejournal.com]

Paternalistic doesn't necessarily imply anti-feminist, just look at the conflict between western feminism, and post-colonial branches of feminism. It'd be reductive to suggest otherwise.

And whilst talking of what a 'real' woman should do is as you say a ridiculous conception, I would suggest that one could make an argument (that I'll note here I'd explicitly disagree with) along the lines of say 'engaging in behaviours to draw the male gaze and contributing to this patriarchal element of culture in regards to personal grooming is an unfeminist action, and you should stop it' that would be reasonably defensible.

One can have all the personal desires they want, but they don't get to pretend they occur in a vacuum.

[meadowphoenix]

You're right in that I should have made it clear that I was talking about the western feminist movement* (also it's doubtful OP's incident occurred in a 3rd world setting), but that still leaves paternalism as at the very most a rebuttable presumption of anti-feminism.

I agree that such a sentiment would be reasonably defensible all the way up to "and you should stop it." There is a very big difference between demanding that people understand the context of their actions (the lack of a vacuum as you say) and demanding that they act against those desires because of an irrational notion of harm. Why should they stop? I don't actually think the latter is reasonably defensible. I was being a bit reductive, but only because I think there is a very real tension between sexual freedom and feminism that complicates even issues such as make-up, and I don't think in this instance it was productive to go there.

*I should also say that I think that post-colonial feminism, especially at it extreme edges is something that is only realistic in an academic or theoretical setting, since it ignores most neurological realities in order to rationalize it's justifiable anger at minorities being ignored, so ironically I usually ignore it.

[(Anonymous)]

anon you're talking to here:
Thanks c:
It can be kinda stupid, but I get past it.