[ SECRET POST #1892 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1892 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[How I Met Your Mother]


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03.
[White Collar]


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04.
[Smash]


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05.
[How I Met Your Mother]


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06.
[Revenge]


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07.
[The Hunger Games]


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08.
[Yu-Gi-Oh]


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09.
[White Collar]


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10.
[Obscurus Lupa, Subspecies]


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11.
[Castleville]


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12.
[Gintama]


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13.
[The Cat Returns]


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14.
[Mythbusters]


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15.
[Invasion of the Body Snatchers]


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16.
[Titanic]


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17.
[All Dogs go to Heaven]


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18.
[Hatoful Boyfriend]


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19.
[Pokemon]


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20.
[Phantom of the Opera]


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21.
[The Middle]


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22.
[life on mars]


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23.
[Scrubs]


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24.
[A Goofy Movie]


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25.
[Nerimon/Alex Day]


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26.
[Katie McGrath]


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27.
[Chuck]


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28.
[Top Chef Season 9]


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29.
[The Vampire Diaries]


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30.
[The Vampire Diaries]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 045 secrets from Secret Submission Post #270.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

(frozen comment)

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

I think men also need to question their choices, yes. But not nearly to the same degree as women, because men don't have the same history of their opinions, identity, and autonomy being devalued the same way women have. Even the traditional male gender role grew out of not being "feminine" (and therefore weak).

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

See, what makes me dislike your argument is crap like the thread above where you're demeaning a woman for not following the same line of thinking as you. She disagrees with your point so clearly she doesn't think about her life or her choices or else she'd fall into line with your opinions like a good little girl.

That's what this comes down to and that's what the problem is with the line of thinking that all of a woman's choices need to be questioned. Whenever that choice doesn't line up with what you (general you here) think, that means she's obviously not questioning it enough and is influenced by society. The only way to be considered to have questioned yourself enough is to fall into line with the 'right' way of thinking.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I think men also need to question their choices, yes. But not nearly to the same degree as women, because men don't have the same history of their opinions, identity, and autonomy being devalued the same way women have.

Wow. Sorry, but speaking as a guy, that is horrible. You're unfairly putting most of the onus of questioning choices on women, and demeaning them for it if they don't go along with you, while if a guy were to make those same choices and not listen to you, you'd barely give them a meh.

It's sexist.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

speaking as a guy

Stopped reading right there. Kindly shut your hole, please.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

No really. I'm asking you to question my choices harder.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Speaking as a woman, I agree with him. Unless you can judge an argument based off something other than sex of the speaker, kindly shut your hole.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Here here!

He may not have the personal experience like women do, but if the points are valid, they're valid no matter who says them.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

When the issue is about feminism? Hell yes I can. It's something (cis)men need to shut the hell up about when they're the ones who benefit from the current system and have never been subject to the degree of manipulation that women have.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Even when they're acknowledging that there is a feminist who is permitting them privileges that that same feminist is denying other women, on top of their many real-world privileges?

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

If you're a woman who thinks you're such a special little snowflake and not like all those other women so much that patriarchal society hasn't had any influence at all on what you want, then I think you're naive and a bit of an idiot. End of story. Men don't have this problem because they haven't had a history of being dehumanized for their gender the way women have. They've afforded themselves that privilege.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

But he was asking for male decisions on the whole to be criticized harder?....

And essentially you're telling him to shut up and eat his privilege cake instead of questioning why it's on his plate and why it is being put there by a feminist, of all people.

:\

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

If he needs to ask why the privilege cake is on his plate at all, then he's either blind or a moron. A feminist didn't put it there. His fellow men did. The feminist is just acknowledging it exists.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Uh no, she specifically mentioned that she doesn't think men need to question themselves as hard on their life choices as women. Which is just giving men another privilege, sanctioned by her type of feminism.

Okay, so it's not so much that there's not an original cake on his plate given to him by the benefit of being male in our society, it's that she purposely went over and put a big dollop of whipped cream and a sparkler candle on it to boot when he never asked for it and there are women across the restaurant trying to flag her down for the check and getting quite angry that they're being ignored.

Should he just have sat there and eaten the whole thing despite his lactose intolerance to the system he'd be perpetuating by not questioning the unfairness of the circumstances? Even if it's to say something like 'oh, hey, I think those ladies would really appreciate a check'?

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Uh, no. Men ALREADY HAVE THE PRIVILEGE of not questioning their choices. They've done it for the last 5,000 years. Acknowledging they have this privilege and that women need to work harder because they've manipulated to follow that same system is just stating the obvious. To believe that we can shake thousands of years of being devalued as people in just a few decades, especially when we're STILL under that kind of social pressure even though we have "more choices"? Hey, I have a bridge in New York I'd like to sell you. I only take cash.

What men need to do is throw the cake out, but also sit down and shut the fuck up for once.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think I'm a specially little snowflake for not being an ass to every man I met. I think I'm being a reasonable human being, like everyone else. I look at the people who hate men as being the radical extremists who I quietly point at and say "I'm not with them. We may agree on some issues that are important to me, but they're screaming assholes."

Dehumanizing one group by gender is not the way to combat dehumanizing other people by gender.

You're not sticking it to the patriarchy, you're just being an asshole.

If you're a woman who thinks you're such a special little snowflake and not like all those other women so much that patriarchal society hasn't had any influence at all on what you want, then I think you're naive and a bit of an idiot.

No, I think most women have been influenced a bit by patriarchal society, but this doesn't mean their not individuals capable of making their own choices nor does it mean that many women have rejected what the patriarchy says (in varying amounts) in order to live the life they want to. You seem to have far less faith in women than I do.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I'm convinced the only way we'll ever be equal is if we're all dehumanized equally. But whatever. I have far less faith in women than you do because I witness the science behind this manipulation every fucking day at my job (I work at an advertising firm). It's far more subtle than you can possibly comprehend, and it works.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Another DA

I'm convinced the only way we'll ever be equal is if we're all dehumanized equally.

But that was what the male anon above was trying to say?

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I have far less faith in women than you do

Thank you for proving that women can be far more misogynist than men. Gold star!

It's far more subtle than you can possibly comprehend, and it works.

Wow, how freaking condescending can you be? I guess I just shouldn't worry my pretty little head over it! There's no way a little simpleton like me could possibly understand the grand things you do! That's it, no woman should be able to look at advertising because it might sway her weak will. Does this mean you're actively promoting patriarchal ideals? Did you really consider your choice to manipulate women into doing what the patriarchy wants?

Also, if advertising so complex, surely medicine must be just as complex. Does that mean I should just sign away my body to whatever doctors say?

I guess us women are just too dumb to make our own choices.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Why only cis-men?

Oh I know, because trans-men are not ~real men, amirtite.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

No, because trans men, on account of having female bodies pre-op and thus being seen as women for a significant chunk of their lives, haven't benefited from male privilege, you dolt.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

different anon

As a pre-op, pre-T transman, I don't give a shit if I haven't benefited from male privilege yet. Please treat me like a cisman online, the only place I pass in, and stop singling me out for special treatment, even if its to tell me to fuck myself.

For christ's sake, we just did this last week.

(frozen comment)

[insanenoodlyguy.livejournal.com]

Why? You might actually want to include the other half of the population in the conversation if your going to change the world.

Especially considering by your own declarations that we're the half running it all. We do happen to be involved in, you know, every issue being talked of on here.

Or do you just want to have a turn at marginalizing somebody? Oh noes! I'm going to piss you off now by pointing out that your willingness to dismiss somebody's opinion based on their gender means you'd have made a great status quo maintaining man.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Because men have had the last few thousand years to talk about women's issues, and it's high time they shut up and listened for once instead of trying to talk over us. It happens every goddamn time you let a man talk about feminism; it stops being about the women and instead becomes All About Him.

(frozen comment)

[insanenoodlyguy.livejournal.com]

Are you the same anon as before who started this particular vein of discussion, if so, seeing as how you responded in an actual reasonable way, I hope you will accept my apology for the accusation of marginalization. The face you responded at all means I was wrong on that account. If not, then I appreciate your offering of an answer significantly more relevant then "Male, shut your hole"

If that's the case however, you probably shouldn't put a discussion up in a place where there's so many of us dudes. Most people, upon seeing a discussion that interests them, will want to get involved. Being told they can't play cause of gender, is, well... you probably can finish that thought for me. Let's face it, Fandom!Secrets really isn't a girls club.

I suppose in part it depends on the goal of the discussion, but it seems to me that the guy that was original posted to made a valid point. Agree with that point or don't, the argument of "you're male, you can't talk about this" is, well, pretty damn flawed. Simply from a debate standpoint the lack of acknowledgement of the point by devolving into personal attacks is on par with all the dismissive attacks folks would cite on here as bigoted, sexist or ablest. The context of oppression doesn't change the fact that it's a shit argument, turning it around just proves that all groups have assholes.

It'd be one thing to tell a guy that no, sexism has not affected him in the same way or the same magnitude as it has affected women, which from what I've seen is the point encompassing or behind many of the situations where it becomes "All about him." In this case however, a guy pointed out (and I agree with him, though I think my argument itself is neutral here) that the poster above him was unfairly putting women's decisions under a ridiculously fine level of scrutiny that seems to require every decision to be judged against if it's that person's desires or if it's society's, whereas men apparently shouldn't do that just because they haven't been devalued to the same degree (Isn't this that society the poster has all the problems with that they want to change)? Especially considering the conversation suggests that any girl who goes with society's expectations must be it's slave, I think the point can be acknowledged, a position argued, clarified, or rejected. Otherwise, you'll have even those on your side turn from your inadequate tactics.

TL;DR This isn't a girls only board. Guys are here. Guys might have something to say. And if their argument isn't crap, a crap dismissal means the crappy one is you.

(frozen comment)

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

So it's a double standard about how hard women and men have to work, but it's okay because it's based on feminism. Keep constant vigilance about yourselves girls, it's the only way you can win the approval of feminism!