[ SECRET POST #1898 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1898 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 65 secrets from Secret Submission Post #271.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[samsom.livejournal.com]

Offering to buy someone drinks

If I'm remembering the movie correctly, he didn't offer. There was no "can I get that for you?" It was more along the lines of "the lady's drinks are on me" to the bartender. Not to her. That's presumptuous. If you want to buy someone a drink, I think it's a good idea to maybe ASK that person first before doing it. If the eye contact is right, then all system's go. But sending a drink to someone is obligating them to be the one to say "no", which makes them the bitch, and most women are raised to be too polite to do that, and that gives some guys the advantage. I understand what you're saying but I think if Kirk had maybe talked to Uhura first, then bought the drink with her permission, she wouldn't have needed to be rude.

And I'm sorry, but I don't feel that someone else should be insulted because he's fifth or sixth in a line of suitors.

Not suitors. Guys in a bar. I'm almost certain she was there to have fun with some friends, not get hit on because she had a skirt on.

If you're not interested in the buyer you say 'thank you, but I'm taken', or 'thank you but no thank you' and you walk away, end of story

I've never felt you had to tell anyone you were taken in order to be left alone. It implies if you were free, then he'd have a chance. And from personal experience, that implication and "thanks but no thanks" just makes some guys try harder.

It really, really bugs me when writers trying for 'strong and independent' end up confusing it with 'rude and abrasive'

I'm gonna have to disagree again. Sometimes being strong and independent DOES mean being rude and abrasive. It's a societal norm that if men are persistent enough, they'll get the girl. Being 'rude and abrasive' cuts down on that quite a bit and I applaude girls like Uhura who aren't afraid of being decisive in their rejection. It cuts down on misunderstandings.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't applaud that type of behavior and I never will, thus we're not going to agree on this.

I found her behavior reprehensible. This does not make me a 'fragile' female who gives in to the dictates of society or wilts under the belief that its a man's world. What it does is ensure that I treat people with courtesy and dignity unless they've done something to have that privilege revoked. This is not me trying to hate on Uhura for the sake of taking her down a peg, this is something ingrained in my belief system and very personal to me. I believe in being polite, being courteous, treating people with respect and dignity. This is something that I wish society as a whole still remembered how to do. You really don't see a lot of it in this day and age. Everything is so... in your face, so hostile.

As I said in my first post, I want to like her, but for me to do that, I'd want to see her portrayed as someone I'd hang out with, someone I'd want to know in real life. Based on what we saw in the film, she doesn't seem that way to me right now.

I've never felt you had to tell anyone you were taken in order to be left alone. It implies if you were free, then he'd have a chance. And from personal experience, that implication and "thanks but no thanks" just makes some guys try harder.

I offered the taken line as an alternative for those who are taken, not as a pretty lie to distract. I've been hit on as a married woman, where my husband was parking a car or in the bathroom, and we were waiting for a table to become available by passing time at the bar. A flash of ring does wonders in that situation. In addition, I have never had a guy take 'thanks but no thanks' as anything other than exactly that. Perhaps I have been fortunate in my dealings with men and you have been unfortunate, or maybe, as Kirk once said, we're both extremists (or in this case, extreme cases) and reality is somewhere in-between (ST6).

Generalizing, however, is an unhealthy practice. So to be rude simple because 'some' men are too persistent, or because there are 'some' jerks out there, is a rather dangerous slippery slope. People should be treated on a case to case basis. Innocent until proven guilty, if you will.

And I still feel that nothing Kirk did up to that point merited rude behavior.

Not suitors. Guys in a bar.

Still not an excuse to be rude. Suitors and guys in bars both fall under the jurisdiction of 'people', or to be more elaborate 'human beings'. A location does not take away someones humanity, nor does it give license for treating people horribly.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I believe in being polite, being courteous, treating people with respect and dignity. This is something that I wish society as a whole still remembered how to do. You really don't see a lot of it in this day and age. Everything is so... in your face, so hostile.


Maybe if you were white, attractive, straight, rich, and gender-conforming, 'old' society treated you well. Works like Pride and Prejudice, Dickens, and the Cranford series point out that 'society' has never been about treating people with respect if it could possibly look down on a group of people for some reason or another. That may be a personal creed of yours, and well done if you actually adhere to it, but don't kid yourself that it's historically been the case.

[(Anonymous)]

Excellent point.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm hispanic, lower-middle class and a strong, independent female who brings in her own income and doesn't define myself by my husband... none of that has anything to do with how I treat people. Bottom line, there is no excuse for poor manners, period. Uhura was far more rude than the situation called for, thus she rubbed me the wrong way. Doesn't matter if people in the past have been judgmental or not, read what I said about people needing to be treated on a case to case basis. Our behavior, our actions, if you will, is what defines us. And I still feel the world would be a better place if people were kinder to one another.

[(Anonymous)]

You're overreacting and reaching. Handle that.

[(Anonymous)]

No, you're being judgmental. You don't get to tell me I'm overreacting and you don't get to dictate how people should feel. Nor do you get to tell people which characters they should warm up to or not. My first point was to point out that people could have been turned off by Uhura for reasons other than race and gender. Since then I've had to defend that perspective and have done so. Its not 'overreacting' because you don't agree with me. You're trying to minimalize my perspective and I do not appreciate it.

You need to handle someone have an opinion that differs from your own.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh come off it! You are overreacting so hard.

[(Anonymous)]

How entitled are you to minimalize my perspective as an over reaction because it differs from your own. News flash, you don't get to tell me how to feel and you don't get to trivialize those feelings. I find rude behavior offensive. You deal with that.

[samsom.livejournal.com]

Generalizing, however, is an unhealthy practice.

What you call generalizing, I call erring on the side of caution.

Uhura didn't shove him to the ground and spit on him and she didn't call him a piece of shit. She told him in no uncertain terms she wasn't interested. If assertive equals rude, then I'm okay with that.

thus we're not going to agree on this

We can agree on this, at least.