Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-03-23 07:01 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-03-23 07:01 pm
[ SECRET POST #1907 ]
⌈ Secret Post #1907 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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07.
[Disney's Gargoyles]
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08.
[X-Men: First Class]
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09.
[keanu reeves]
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[keanu reeves]
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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]
11. [SPOILERS for Death Note]
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12. [SPOILERS for Kuragehime]
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13. [SPOILERS for The Walking Dead]
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14. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]
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15. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]
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16. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]
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17. [SPOILERS for Mass Effect 3]
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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]
18. [TRIGGER WARNING for sexual abuse]
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19. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]
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20. [TRIGGER WARNING for rape]
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #272.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - hit/ship/spiration ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
The fairy godmother? Jaq and Gus? Seriously they all did a lot more for Cinderella than Prince Charming.
The purpose of that help was to get her to a ball where the prince was looking for a bride. The prince was the endgame, nobody was going through all that trouble because it was her lifelong dream to wear a pretty dress.
Did you miss that it was Louis that helped her get her restaurant a lot more than Naveen?
Ah, right, that's true, her adventure got her Louis. At that point it felt like it didn't matter, though, and it was treated like it didn't, by resolving Tiana's original problem so flippantly. Because she already had (romantic) love, the restaurant was merely a nice bonus. I really didn't like that message.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-03-24 07:35 am (UTC)(link)Well, yes, but that was kind of the point. Ursula would never have made a deal that she thought Ariel could fulfill. I always found it funny that even though it has two very strong female characters it fails the Bechdel test on purpose. Ariel repeatedly tries to focus on her family and how leaving would effect them, but Ursula keeps steering it back to Princey, trying to put blinders on her.
The purpose of that help was to get her to a ball where the prince was looking for a bride. The prince was the endgame, nobody was going through all that trouble because it was her lifelong dream to wear a pretty dress.
Nope, prince was just a happy accident. She wanted to go to the ball, it was about getting out the house and out from under her step-mother's thumb. She never talked about wanting to meet, dance with, or even see the prince. She talked about making a dress and going to the ball. The step-sisters talked about the prince.
Because she already had (romantic) love, the restaurant was merely a nice bonus. I really didn't like that message.</I. I can see where that would bug you, but at the same time, I feel like the larger problem was skewed priorities for both Tiana and Naveen.
no subject
Ursula knew there was a good chance Ariel could hold up her end of the bargain, it was just irrelevant as she never intended to let her do it. What Disney did was odd - they put so much effort into changing the sea witch from the fairytale into an antagonist but then didn't allow Ariel to fight with her. Ariel's focus was getting to Eric, not showdowning with Ursula, up until the very end.
She wanted to go to the ball, it was about getting out the house and out from under her step-mother's thumb.
She originally intended to go to the ball with her stepmother and sisters, she had no animosity towards them. The opening song of the film is about a dream she has in her heart that came before she ever knew about any ball and is heavily implied to be true love - like Snow White's opener, only more vague. Her fairy godmother fulfilled her heart's wish.
I feel like the larger problem was skewed priorities for both Tiana and Naveen.
I know that's what they were trying to sell, but I don't feel they sold it hard enough on Tiana's side of things. Naveen's laziness got him disowned and turned into a frog, so he had to learn the value of work. Tiana's hard work got her...what? What was the negative consequence?
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-03-24 04:11 pm (UTC)(link)No! She actually says, "That was a close one. Too close. The little tramp! Oh, she's better than I thought. At this rate, he'll be kissing her by sunset for sure." She didn't expect to need to take things into her own hands.
What Disney did was odd - they put so much effort into changing the sea witch from the fairytale into an antagonist but then didn't allow Ariel to fight with her. Ariel's focus was getting to Eric, not showdowning with Ursula, up until the very end.
lol, yeah, because Ariel attacked Ursula, Ursula turned her wrath on Ariel more than Eric. Also, Ariel didn't know what an antagonist Ursula was until she had practically married Eric!
She originally intended to go to the ball with her stepmother and sisters, she had no animosity towards them. The opening song of the film is about a dream she has in her heart that came before she ever knew about any ball and is heavily implied to be true love - like Snow White's opener, only more vague. Her fairy godmother fulfilled her heart's wish.
I'd disagree that she wanted to go with them as one big happy family. She wanted to go with and argued that she should be able to as she was 'eligible' not because she was a step-daughter or whatever. It was a matter of logistics, not she wanted to be with them. Her heart's wish was definitely love, but it's not like she was out to find a husband at the ball! What strikes me is that what actually gets her her freedom is that the person she fell in love with happened to be a prince with the power to get her out of there (a complete shock to her who had viewed it as a kiddie-friendly one night stand, a fun night that was never going to happen again).
I know that's what they were trying to sell, but I don't feel they sold it hard enough on Tiana's side of things.
I know, but I feel like the character would have been very unlikeable she had been snippy to her family and friends. I also feel like that would have had potential racial problems. She would have been both the hard working black woman and the angry black woman. They wanted her to be relatable for all little black girls, and that means trimming off edge.
no subject
She didn't expect to have to do it so soon. But she took Ariel's voice in the first place as insurance, so she was never so confident as to leave it to chance. Ariel didn't make a deal impossible in and of itself, she just made one with a cheater.
lol, yeah, because Ariel attacked Ursula, Ursula turned her wrath on Ariel more than Eric. Also, Ariel didn't know what an antagonist Ursula was until she had practically married Eric!
Ariel attacked Ursula once then fled to the surface to find Eric. Why? To get his help? To protect him? Go warn your kingdom, you silly fish.
Her heart's wish was definitely love, but it's not like she was out to find a husband at the ball! What strikes me is that what actually gets her her freedom is that the person she fell in love with happened to be a prince with the power to get her out of there
That's what I'm saying. The way I see it, the reason her fairy godmother showed up that night in particular and never before was because she'd finally found a path to fulfilling her charge's wish: Get her to the ball, put her in the path of the prince. Cinderella herself was ignorant of the long goal to keep her character innocent, but her good fortune wasn't chance or cosmic fate, it was carefully arranged.
I know, but I feel like the character would have been very unlikeable she had been snippy to her family and friends.
No more than Lottie was unlikeable by being spoiled or Naveen being lazy, IMO. What made you forgive their flaws was that their hearts were good, and Tiana's was too, so she wouldn't have needed to be mean, just make mistakes. A scene of her turning down spending time with her mother to work, or, say, sleeping through Lottie's birthday party because she was so exhausted, would have better set up the framework for "don't lose sight of your loved ones for your dream". But yeah, Disney was navigating a very delicate landscape (as evidenced by all the shit they got for starting her out as "Maddy the chambermaid") and it caused them to take fewer risks with Tiana's character. Sad.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-03-24 07:18 pm (UTC)(link)Yeah, she has it as an insurance policy she was never planning on needing. That's why she had a bunch of other trinkets from other people she had scammed. She's a scammer, but she never expected to need it. It's not like Ursula knew that Eric had a memory of Ariel's voice.
Ariel attacked Ursula once then fled to the surface to find Eric. Why? To get his help? To protect him? Go warn your kingdom, you silly fish.
To get him to a boat so he wouldn't have been drowned in the next 30 seconds? Sorry, but I'd do the same.
Cinderella herself was ignorant of the long goal to keep her character innocent, but her good fortune wasn't chance or cosmic fate, it was carefully arranged.
I disagree. No one had the plan she would marry the prince.
Tiana's was too, so she wouldn't have needed to be mean, just make mistakes.
She did make mistakes by being too focused on work. Lottie was actually very surprising as she could have been nasty very easily, but they showed that she was inherently generous. Naveen was a little unlikable at the beginning; he was an idiot play boy!
A scene of her turning down spending time with her mother to work
She turned down some of her black friends at the dinner. I'll definitely agree that they didn't make much of an impact, and it would have been stronger with her mom.
Disney was navigating a very delicate landscape (as evidenced by all the shit they got for starting her out as "Maddy the chambermaid") and it caused them to take fewer risks with Tiana's character. Sad.
Yeah, I get the feeling that a lot of their recent movies have that "designed by committee" feel for a reason and it is a pity. I just had to think of what a fine line it had to have been: can't have any stereotypes, but must still have a message, it is worse to have a non-black prince and she still marries a white guy or better to have a black prince and then the black princess can only marry a black prince, she has to be American so that her story is more in line with black Americans, as opposed to being an exotic African princess, and she had to be a real princess, not just a heroine. It would be a nightmare!
no subject
I disagree. No one had the plan she would marry the prince.
I guess we just disagree on this then.
She did make mistakes by being too focused on work.
Which brings us back to my entire original position: That those so-called mistakes lacked the necessary impact for an Aesop lesson. It just wasn't enough to convince me Tiana was working too hard.
she has to be American so that her story is more in line with black Americans, as opposed to being an exotic African princess
I agree with everything but this. The only other American princess Disney ever had was Pocahontas, there was no reason to make Tiana American. That's one pitfall Disney made up all on their own.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-03-24 11:07 pm (UTC)(link)I guess so, now that I think about it. I guess I took this more as "HA! This'll make it impossible for him to love her!" rather than "This will come in handy later. :D"
Which brings us back to my entire original position: That those so-called mistakes lacked the necessary impact for an Aesop lesson. It just wasn't enough to convince me Tiana was working too hard.
I agree that it wasn't enough, but now we're talking in terms of "was it effective?" not "did it exist?" It's an important distinction.
I agree with everything but this. The only other American princess Disney ever had was Pocahontas, there was no reason to make Tiana American.
I can understand this, but I still feel like there could have been a lot of potential issues of her being an African princess rather than a black princess.